Are there any areas where you would acknowledge that Usyk has an advantage over Ali as a HW?

I agree except defense, Usyk doesn't know how to block punches.

 

Just as a wee aside, although this may be sacriligeous to some I felt Dr Sleep was actually a better move than The Shining. And also Rebecca Ferguson' Rose the Hat >>>> Jack Nicholson's Jack Torrence

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Dr Sleep was so so good!

 

Werner stepped on Ali.
Now show Ali being knocked down by body shots and compare that to Usyk.

 

Who is Werner and why would he do such a thing?

 

Wepner, because he did.

let’s see footage of Ali going down to a body shot

 

It was a low blow by Dubois.
According to the rule book a shot below the naval ( belly button) is a
low blow
( illegal shot).

 

I have never argued otherwise

yet Usyk fans are so desperate, they are posting footage of Ali being tripped by Wepner tk argue it was a knockdown

 

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What makes you say that? If I remember correctly, he did an amazing job at blocking / slipping punches against Chisora. He was pretty good against Joshua, too.

 

I only know Werner Klemperer and believe me, Colonel Klink would do such a thing only to then blame “I know nuzzing” Sgt. Schultz for it.

 

Personally I see nothing wrong with these types of threads.

The question posed is nothing new and the type of cross era question that has been asked since the days of yore.

Of course you will always get some pulling to the extreme in respect of their chosen corner but you will also get some well balanced opinions in the middle that duly address the question.

When attempting to estimate the overall worth of two fighters including H2H considerations, both perceived strengths and weakness will naturally be addressed and can be done so equitably.

As to literally not knowing the exact answer to some questions, that’s par for the course and again, nothing new and the obvious ??? surrounding those questions have never stopped anyone from trying to answer them all the same.

I would like to think that, before embarking on more forensic investigation, the platform that most are launching from here is the due acceptance that both Ali and Usyk were great fighters

 

If youre going to judge ali by his worst performances, you got to compare him to an usyk who was getting pieced up by a kickboxer. if your going to compare alis best performances, you got to compare him to usyks best performances. which are usyks best performances and how do those opponents compare to the opponents in alis best performances?

 

You mean Ali vs Holmes? Berbick?

That's 39 years old Ali in action. 39 year old Usyk was defending his title via knockout at that age.

 

Nobody ages like anyone else. Besides the genetic differences, the number of fights, quality of opposition, accumulated damage, etc… all differ. The comparison is between them at their worst or their best.

 

You could pick out a good few advantages Usyk holds over Ali. Whether that makes him a more effective fighter is the great unknown. I'd lean towards no. Ali had good dirty tactics which Usyk seems to lack. We've seen him complain about legal body shots. Ironically, as good as Usyk has proven as a pro, there's this lingering amateur etiquette. Pitted against Ali's competition and schedule, Usyk would be doing very well to have only two losses after Liston, Foreman, Norton twice, a Frazier trilogy, and a bucket load of contenders. I actually think Frazier has a great chance of stopping him/shortening his career.

 

He has a more text book guard, head movement and footwork. Also works more to the body.