What did RJJ lack that Ali had?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Aug 30, 2008.

  1. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 VIP Member

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    dinner!


    :rofl :rofl :rofl
     
  2. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    LMFAO :rofl
     
  3. Bill Butcher

    Bill Butcher Erik`El Terrible`Morales Full Member

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    A great chin & the ability to dig down when in real trouble in a fight are the 2 main things that come to mind.

    I felt that Ali`s lateral movement was better than Roy`s too.
     
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes, his lateral movement was better, but Roy was possibly even better at not getting hit.

    But something that really separates them for me is that you knew what to expect from Jones, but quite the opposite being true with Ali.

    His fight against Foreman is of course the classic example of this. But already against Liston and Folley he showed the ability to shift gears and change tactic from round to round. Also, against Williams he surprised everyone by coming out as a destroyer from the beginning and he let Chuvalo punch him to the body just show he could take it.

    Ali, more than probably any other fighter in history, had that X-factor, and that, together with his intangibles, made him so much more than just someone with freakish physical abilities.

    Jones on the other hand can be somewhat dull to watch, even though he pulls out some truly amazing things.
     
  5. heehoo

    heehoo TIMEXICAH! Full Member

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    Ali faced the best of the best, and usually won.

    Roy Jones, Jr.'s quality of opponents wasn't anything special.

    They could both move, punch, fire off rapid combinations, you name it, though ASli was clearly better at taking a punch, and when hot got knocked down, he always got up.
     
  6. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    Ali was extrodinary in every single way. I always refer back to this video.

    [YT]6sYO3wkVbI4[/YT]

    :rofl

    And all before the biggest fight of his professional career. Unbelievable.

    To answer the thread; resume and chin.
     
  7. redrooster

    redrooster Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I hate saying this and many will criticize me for it but I feel Jones is superior to Ali, Leonard, Whitaker even tho all are premier fighters. Pernell is more your conventional boxer. I don't know if he would have been as successful without the Duvas expert management and development. But the Duvas are well established team with an enviable track record of success (why don't people acknowledge this?)

    But Roy Jones don't even need great trainers like Hagler didnt need them in the same way. Guys like Hagler and Jones can go as far as they want with just about any decent team.

    How can Ali top Jones as a fighter if he didn't even throw body blows? I seen Roy sink people into the canvas with shots to the sides, solar plexus, you name it. Roy is a perhaps the most talented body puncher ever-he only needs one!

    I am not alone in this. Inside the 1999 issue of Ring (fan poll) Roy was awarded best body puncher of the day-better than Chavez or anyone you can think of.

    And though I really like Ali, he is more your typical jab and dance type. Roy could do so much more and overwhelm you just with flurries alone. His right lead was faster than than the opponents jab and usually by the first round had already established superiority. From that point on, the opponent knew he was outclassed.

    Only weak point might be his chin but he was so highly gifted, no one really got the chance to test it.

    I'm not sayng Roy DIDN'T have a chin, only that it was a little bit of a question mark.
     
  8. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    What helps Ali is that he was beatable while still looking unbeatable most of the time. Because he was the standard bearer and the biggest draw in the division, that he did get beat and almost lost at other times, having to overcome taking serious punishment, helped to make his opposition that could accomplish that look much more legitimate in a historical sense.

    Besides that, personality and just a perfect storm of historical factors came into play. Anti-Vietnam protesters had a face, and being a polarizing figure like he was meant that whether you loved or hated him, you were going to have an opinion on Ali.
     
  9. salsanchezfan

    salsanchezfan Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    .............Dude, with that one highlighted line you just channeled Rockyjim. :yikes
     
  10. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Jones lacks the desire to be great. While Ali fought the best, Jones fought who brought the most money.
     
  11. Addie

    Addie Myung Woo Yuh! Full Member

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    I give preference to fighters who fought the best of their generation, and on that reason alone, I feel Ali is superior to Roy Jones. Of course, he is superior in many ways, but it'd be an insult to Ali's entire career if Jones was held in higher regard.
     
  12. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    One wonders what Camacho would have done with the Duvas expert management and development. I think the standard debate on this forum would have been: 'who was better, Camacho or Robinson?'.
     
  13. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    File Under: Tried to be Funny- Failed. :good
     
  14. Stonehands89

    Stonehands89 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Bokaj, Pontius and Sal Sanchez called it plainly. I would add that your lack of enthusiasm while watching Jones in a fight might be directly correlated with Jones' lack of enthusiasm for putting himself at risk for more than a few seconds. Jones avoided the danger zone -Ali would mix it up and do battle. Jones would potshot and jump out, potshot and jump out and when cornered he'd cover up and at times would make the amateur mistake of closing his eyes and turning his head away from incoming shots.

    Jones was looking to make each and every fight a showcase of his extraordinary athleticism. Ali was looking for the same but it was a means to an end... Ali's end, his goal, was glory. Jones' goal was to not end up like McClellan -and believe me that spectre was ever before him. It effected his game.

    Ali's pursuit of glory was epitomized in his challenges -but it cost his health and quality of life after retirement. Jones' was more content to showcase his stuff and was reduced to rapping about his skills to compensate for his lack of challenges. That translates into far less glory for the sensible boxing fan, but probably a better post-retirement of quality of life.
     
  15. Rock0052

    Rock0052 Loyal Member Full Member

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    That's a solid point, and in that regard, it's hard to argue with Roy's strategy when you see what wound up happening to Ali, who I believe had a chin that, as I've said before, was too good for his own good.

    While it's important not to write off Roy Jones accomplishments, which I think has been done to a certain extent in this thread, I think the reasons Ali was a more transcendent figure have pretty much been covered. That said- I don't have an ATG list ranked out, but if I did, I'd put Roy above Ali without feeling guilty about it.