Would Ali’s Rope A Dope Work On Sonny Liston?

I don't think so. Liston was too skillful and smart for that. I don't think Ali would try it on for those same reasons.

 

I agree. Liston would have a field day with it imo

 

Hello, Charles White.

Yes. I think Muhammad Ali could have fought off the ropes and still would have defeated Sonny Liston, but it would have made the win harder.

 

I think Sonny Liston wouldn't 'bite' if he was just spending strength and energy without any effect, or with minimal effect. IMO

 

It most certainly wouldn't with a peak Liston.

 

Not in the way that he used it against Foreman but it's worth remembering that by the time of the first Liston, Ali was already practising some version of fighting off the ropes whilst absorbing body shots but predominately blocking with forearms, elbows and headmovement and reflexes.

In round 5 when his vision is compromised, although not using the ropes exclusively, he did use the ropes a few times to help negate Liston's force. What's interesting about round 5 is the tactile defence he employed of controlling Liston's centre line, under hooks and overhooks and manipulating Liston's balance and forcing him to shift his feet, not really allowing him to plant his feet long enough to take him out.

With clear vision, coming off his toes and a mix of high guard, tactile defence and sharp shooting, whilst he wouldn't necessarily employ it like he did against George, as Sonny didn't have George's dimensions and push back style, Ali could employ a variant where he still sharp shoots, moves his head but doesn't employ as much footwork.

Much more dangerous and gives hope to a Sonny who doesn't have to chase Ali down, so negates some of the speed of movement benefits that Ali enjoyed throughout. However, if I were his trainer and he insisted on the tactics but was still prepared to listen to me somewhat, I could envisage a way of making it work without being too immobile that he allows Sonny to build up too much confidence down the stretch.

 

Sonny was a much more methodical fighter than young George Foreman. Young George looked to destroy and get dude out of there as ASAP. Sonny fought at a much more measured pace and worked behind his jab. In the first fight with Liston, Ali didn't need to lay back and cover up and in the second fight, it didn't matter because Liston wasn't there to win anyways.

Folks forget that what Ali did in Africa against Forman wasn't planned. There were a combination of factors that led to Ali laying on the ropes. One, it was incredibly hot and two, the ring was really spongey. Ali's legs were gone from the heat and moving in that ring with a bouncy surfuce and he also noticed that Foreman was starting to fade. He made Foreman think he was ready to go and went from being an outside fighter to a counterpuncher and Foreman simply had never ran into a fighter at that point that he couldn't destroy. It was a brilliant on the fly tactical sift but was not planned out at all.

 

It depends on how loose the ropes are.

 

Sure as hell didn’t work against Holmes

 

No, I don't think it would.
Actually it might go against Ali.
I don't see Sonny just pounding away at him as George did.The body shots coming from Liston would be nightmare.Liston attacking his ribs and stomach whilst Ali was against the rope's could seriously sap his legs and movement.

 

Also on the fly because Ali discovered in the first round that on the one hand, he couldn’t miss George with the right lead, but on the other Foreman was too good at cutting off the ring (at least fighting on a mattress-padded canvas) to keep him at bay with footwork.

So he decided to engage George in pure mental warfare — show me what you got, I can take it longer than you can dish it out … then it’s my turn.

Sonny never showed in his two fights with Ali that he had any clue how to cut off the ring or impose upon Muhammad to fight Sonny’s fight. He couldn’t even catch up with a blinded Ali.

That means Ali wouldn’t need to employ the rope-a-dope stratagem. Sonny couldn’t handle him from the outside and Ali was like “I can do this all day” Captain American in the Avengers movies.

This content is protected

 

Going wayyyyyyyy out on a limb I'm inclined to think 1980 Ali wouldn't have made it work against Foreman, either. It's a real hot take.

 

Not to say it would necessarily work let alone Liston even indulging Ali and his rope a dope, but Liston would def. be more considerate picking his shots and Sonny also knew how to feint which might or might not succeed in causing Ali to reactively shift into more hittable positions.

Of course ‘77 Ali was already in decline but FWIW at that stage of his career, a more measured and patient Shavers (relative to his usual self) hit a rope laying Ali in just the right spots, head and body (just 3-4 punches all up I think), to immediately get Ali off the ropes in quick time and cause Muhammad to instantly forget about rope a doping Earnie thereafter.

 

I admire such hot takes. It takes a really big set of balls to get out there, like Robinson Crusoe all on his lonesome, to state your much less entertained piece. Wilson!!!