Why doesn't Wlad have a spot on most people's Top 10 ATG HW lists?

Well I’ll agree to disagree on that. To each their own.

 

I did not know he beat the most undefeated fighters, unified the belts & Olympic Gold are good points, most title fights counting the losses, although Louis had 2 more title defense victories.

 

I believe Wlad had 13 wins over undefeated fighters in double digits. I don’t think anyone else at heavyweight has that many.

EDIT: he has 12 wins over unbeaten opponents and 25 world title fight wins.

 

I have him in the Top 5 or just outside on any given day.

 

How many of those undefeated fighters were actually any good? Genuine question

 

Without analyzing every single one, Ruslan Chagaev, Sultan Ibragimov and Alexander Povetkin were all belt holders. Sam Peter, Bryant Jennings and Calvin Brock were respectable contenders. So that’s at least six good ones right there. I’d have to take some time to scrutinize the rest. Still, beating 12 guys who are unbeaten in double digits is something no one else has done and at least half of those were pretty damn good

 

Doesn`t warrant a top 10 place for me but thanks for the reply

 

Cause there's more than ten better than him.. H2H he isn't the best in his own family

 

I think there's a few reasons.
1. He and his era were boring. Even hardcore fans subconsciously fall victim to the idea that for a fighter to be great they need to have had several incredible performances or incredible fights. Wlad won and often won with highlight KOs but his fights were almost always awful to watch. He was effective at the cost of entertainment and people resent him for it and allow it to influence their overview of his career and accomplishments. His era also had no real standout heavies apart from him and his brother. There was Povetkin, but he didn't really become recognised as a true standout until later. And even then Wlad's win over him was in an atrocious fight. I don't think it's a coincidence that his reputation amongst casuals and hardcore's alike took such an uptick after he had a great fight against Joshua. You'd think it wouldn't matter much as he still lost but people's last memory of him being him giving a top guy of the next era hell in a great fight did wonders for his PR.

2. His losses. He took a few too many losses while he was still a young man. People can excuse his losses to Fury and Joshua because he was older but the losses to Sanders, Purity and Brewster came when he was still in his physical prime even if he hadn't yet developed into his overall prime. He also didn't avenge 2/3 of these losses.

3. He wasn't American. He came around at a time where heavyweight boxing in the US was on the decline. A lot of American fans didn't really respect it think highly of Lennox Lewis until he had beaten Holyfield and Tyson. Meanwhile Wlad didn't have a Holyfield or Tyson to show the US fans just how good he was, and with how often dismissive American fans are of fighters from outside the US, Wlad would never really be able to get the respect he deserved from that market. The sport was expanding and many of the guys he'd fight wouldn't be American so in American fans eyes they wouldn't be any good and thus he himself wouldn't be any good. His boring style and losses didn't help in this regard either. It might not seem like this would be something that affected a hardcore fans view of him, but public perception means a lot. It's why Dempsey was and still is to a lesser extent considered to be a bonafide heavyweight great despite his lacking resume and accomplishments.

4. Anti recency bias. He was active recently enough to where people can still remember the bad parts of his reign. All the holding, the weak opposition, In 10, 20, 30 years people will phase the bad out and likely only remember his highlights while comparing him to whatever the crop of heavies looks like at that point. His brutal KOs, his total dominance, his great effort against Joshua at 41. I think we're already seeing this happen to an extent. If a poll had been conducted about the top 10 heavies ever at around the point he lost to Fury he'd likely be on even less lists than he is today.

5. His weak resume. Maybe the one that most would point to, but one that I don't think is really fair. His era was weak and he didn't have any great dance partners. His brother was around but obviously he's not going to fight his actual blood brother (not like Shakur and Keyshawn not wanting to fight because they're pals or whatever). Still he did what he was supposed to do in a weak era. He dominated. Like Louis and like Holmes did who are considered locks for the top 10 and even top 3. He reigned for longer than Holmes and I think little less than Louis, and made just one or two less defences than Holmes. With those two fighters people recognise that their long term dominance and consistency made up for not having any real prime heavyweight greats on their resume. Even a phenom like Tyson failed to have as long a reign as those three in a similar era (if he'd beaten Douglas he would've entered the 90s as champion which was a FAR better era, but ultimately he lost to a guy like Douglas). To reign for as long as Wlad, Holmes and Louis did is an incredible achievement but often isn't treated as such for Wlad.

This isn't to say I rank him as highly as them. I don't. but if they are locks for the top 5 heavies then I think Wlad should be a lock for the top 10. He beat the best guys of his day. Certainly beat more contenders than fighters like Foreman and Marciano even if his top wins weren't as good.

 

First impressions are powerful.

Boxing fans who were around in 2004 had a certain idea of who Wladimir Klitschko was as a boxer and they really aren't open to relitigating that.

They won't even rank him above Vitali because they already made up their mind who was better.

 

That’s fair but I mentioned that he did more than that

 

Have him on the bottom around 9 or 10. His ability was awesome but I think not avenging some of his losses hurt as well as bad competition

 

No it's not. Look at every HW in the division now - all have been knocked down / stopped except for Usyk & Gassiev. Gassiev will probably be knocked down soon since his competition hasn't been that great before.

 

Yeah, it is. He's been KTFO by journeyman. So he adopted that safety first style that got boxing kicked off of HBO. Thanks, Wlad.