Did Ali and Holmes have True Granite Chins

Both Ali & Holmes were extremely durable. I mean, you don't have to be intelligent to watch some of the punches they both absorbed during their careers to come that conclusion.

If forced to pick who had the better chin, I would say Holmes. For me, Larry had the best recovery powers of a HW. The right hand he took from Shavers was madness. Holmes was actually knocked out & then woke up when he hit the canvas. I don't know how he got up!

 

arther1045 is a damn jokeatsch

 

Ali took some of the same right hands and stayed standing, and Holmes was close to peak where Ali was way past it. Ali is FAR more proven, given the bombs he took from not only Shavers, but Foreman, Liston and dozens upon dozens from Frazier.

Holmes could be dropped easier but recovered superbly.

I like Ali here, but Holmes is certainly on the top rung.

 

:roll: Bill1234.

I never said Holmes did not have a great chin, i said Ali's was better.

You said Holmes was dropped by Kevin Issacs.

OK. But at least Sonny Banks and Henry Cooper were known in the boxing world.

And as i already stated. Ali was 20-21 and 201 pounds. His body was not mature yet.

Can you see Cooper dropping the Ali of 1965-1967?

Can you see Snipes dropping Ali the way he did Holmes. And this was a near PEAK Holmes.

Not a under developed one who is 20-21 years old.

Is Snipes Liston, Frazier, Foreman, Mac Foster, Ron Lyle?

Even guys like Quarry, Bonavena and Chuvalo hit harder than Snipes.

Holmes had a great chin, i never said he didn't. It just ain't as good as Ali's.

 

Plus why do people bring up that Cooper weighed only 190 pounds as a slur to Ali?

Cooper weighed more than Marciano did his whole career. Plus he was 6'2".

A 235 pound Jess Wilard was destroyed by a 184 pound Jack DEMPSEY.

Ali only weighed 201 pounds v Cooper so the weight difference was not huge.

Ali was not physical peak. Not the 210 1/2 pounds he was a year later v Liston.

Cooper was not feather fisted either. He was certainly known as a bigger hitter than Kevin Issacs or Renaldo Snipes.

 

I'm confused by the ":roll: " I said things that countered what you said. It doesn't always matter how hard someone is considered to hit in general, they can still land massive shots, which Snipes did to Larry. Yes, I can see the shot Snipes landed on Larry dropping Ali. Is Cooper Norton, Cooney, Weaver, Mercer, McCall, Holyfield, Smith, or Bey? The shot Snipes landed on Holmes was easily as hard, or harder than the one Cooper hit Clay with. It's mainly a matter of them seeing it comming or not, and how big the shot is. Would you say Holmes was developed in the Isaacs fight? You don't have to be known in the boxing world to land a hard punch.

 

Look at the Snipes shot:

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You honestly and truly believe that Ali was never hit cleanly by the guys I mentioned? You mean, Frazier landed only one clean punch on Ali in their legendary trilogy and still managed to win one fight and lost the other two closely? Foreman never managed to land even one clean shot against a stationary Ali on the ropes who was urging him to have a go? I believe that when you use rope-a-dope, you take it for granted that you will get hit, at least occasionally. Norton broke Ali's jaw in their first fight and many people argue that he won one of their other two fights. He did all this by never cleanly hitting Ali? Lyle was ahead on points at the time when Ali stopped him. He was ahead in a long fight, without hitting his opponent cleanly? In a boxing match? People still wonder how an old and shot Ali took full blooded shots from the dreaded Earnie Shavers and still remained upright. Or do you believe that Shavers did not land even one of those punches cleanly? Liston was not doing too badly in their first fight either. All the others, except maybe for Cleveland Williams, at least had a go or two at Ali. I forgot Oscar Bonavena the last time. He literally hurled himself with his punches at Ali and landed quite a few. Ali hardly winced. Yet the same Bonavena knocked down Frazier twice with punches to which he seemed to be less committed.

By the way, you said that "most of the people you named never landed clean punches on Ali". This means that some of them did. Then you go on to say that "when you did land a clean punch he went down no matter who he took it from". Both your statements cannot be correct.

Holmes, as I posted, tended to go down sometimes. But you have to admire how he would invariably get back up to box the ears off his opponent.

Look FR, I understand that everyone is entitled to his opinion and as such have respect for them all. After all, this is a discussion forum.

But I will appreciate if you really watch the fights and then post your comments.

Regards.

 

I love it that he calls himself "Foreman Rules" and then talk down the man that schooled Foreman. If Ali didn't have a good chin, Foreman's power surely is very, very overrated.

 

This post would have meant more if it had the list that I was asking for. Still waiting. The silence is deafening. Just some clowns claiming a guy who got koed 5 times has a great chin. Waiting for that list pal.

 

Bill1234 I never claimed that Snipes shot v Holmes was not hard.

But Snipes was a nobody.

Plus Ali would not have gone down that from Snipes shot because Ali took right hands to the chin his whole career and never went down.

Was that Snipes right hand harder than Shavers?

Ali was shot v Shavers and never went down.

Holmes was peak v Shavers and went down.

It was left hooks that troubled Ali.

At least Cooper was a KNOWN fighter at the time, a guy who was liked and KNOWN in the boxing World.

Cooper was a veteran who had waged wars and fought against an green Ali who was only 21 and 201 pounds.

Remember Ali travelled to England to fight Henry in front of 55,000.

Ali was only 21.

Who was Snipes before and after Holmes?

 

Joe Louis Rex Layne Jersey Joe Walcott and Archie Moore were all big punchers.


Louis # 1 on Ring Magazine top 100 punchers list and 6'2 214lb(outweighed marciano by 30lb)

Walcott # 66 on Ring Magazine top 100 punchers list

Moore # 4 on Ring Magazine top 100 punchers list

Rex Layne was 34-1(25kos) described as

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Even a peak mike tyson couldnt floor him once in many rounds of sparring

 

I do think The Renaldo Snipes shot hurts holmes more than helps. snipes was not a big puncher and he had holmes OUT with one shot, larry went stumbling into the ring post even after getting up, if snipes had any kind of finishing skills, he would have taken out larry. Of course taking the shavers right hand showed larry has what it takes to take a big punch.


I will say larry seemed to be far more vunerable to being stunned and hurt badly by right hands than ali was.......

 

Does make you think.... but on the other hand, Ali was more susceptible to left hooks. Frazier feasted on it, not to mention what Cooper did.