How Much Of Schmeling's Victory Over Louis Was Down To Brilliant Tactics?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Fergy, Aug 30, 2026.


  1. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    OrJoe simply young and inexperienced?

    Did Schmeling genuinely expose a weakness in Louis,or do people give the result to much tactical significance because of how dramatic the rematch was?
     
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It's exaggerated. For example, people don't talk about Schmeling's ice cold temperament in that fight, they like the "Zee something" narrative. But it mattered. The day after we saw Hrgovic either by design or by fortune defeat a hyped puncher by keeping him close and making him work, it's another reminder that it matters, the strategy and the tactical execution of it.

    So Joe was young, but not that inexperienced and he just got badly found out by a thinking, cool, technically proficient fighter. All aspects of it matter and if you pick at it there's more to Max's strategy than waiting for him not to reposition his hand properly.
     
  3. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    I do remember reading some place that Schmeling and his trainer (Bulow?),had studied Joe very carefully before the first The plan was to Louis to lead and counter him with the right. Schmeling definitely didn't simply stand there trading ,he was looking for a particular moment.
     
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    It was Max Machow that supposedly studied the film and revealed the weakness to Max - that's the bones of the story. But I tell you, it's like so many other stories, the "I zee something but i won't tell quote", you can see Max saying this on film, but you can't see him saying after that fight saying "he didn't properly return his jabbing hand to the defensive posture" or something like that. Looking for detail gets interesting fast.
     
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  5. greynotsoold

    greynotsoold Boxing Addict

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    In my opinion, when Max said he saw something he did, and it wasn't that Louis dropped his jab after throwing it. What Louis was willing to do, and what max made him do over and over again, was to jab down at the target. In every 'how to' boxing manual ever written it says- or it should- that the jab should have an upwards- even if even only slightly- trajectory.
    Jabbing down shortens your reach and leaves you vulnerable to a right hand over your jab. This is why Schmeling fought like he did; his lead foot close to the lead foot of Louis, weight leaning to his right and back over his right leg.
    On top of that Max fought a very disciplined fight; he made it a tactical battle between his right hand and the jab of Louis. He smothered and clinched to avoid exchanges where Louis could cut his hands loose.
    See, if a guy is looking to throw a right hand over your jab, the jab traveling upwards makes that harder because it gets your shoulder in the way, even if you drop the hand as it comes back. But, if you jab down, your chin is above your shoulder. And reaching with the jab- as one will when the opponent is dipping to his right with his weight back- compounds that mistake.
     
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  6. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    It was genius that won that fight schmeling. Was Louis a tad complacent ? Perhaps. But you can’t take anything away from Max’s brilliant fight plan
     
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  7. Fergy

    Fergy Walking Dead Full Member

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    It's shades of Tyson v Douglas imo.
    Buster had the plan, it was always going to be hell for Tyson.
    But I don't think it was the full Tyson it could have been.
     
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  8. Andre2000

    Andre2000 Active Member Full Member

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    Just imo, besides pure strategy, Max’s plan called in a great deal of courage and the acceptance of a fair measure of punishment being absorbed along the way.

    For me, the aforementioned attributes contribute a lot to the perception of how great Max’s performance was.

    Perhaps analogous, Ali’s own strategy against Foremam can’t be simplified to just the rope a dope.

    There was obviously more going on than Ali just laying on the ropes and allowing Foreman to blast away to hasten the demise of George’s tank.

    The rope a dope tactic in itself still invited a good deal of unavoidable punishment to the body whenever the tactic was adopted.

    As a tactic, the rope a dope certainly wasn’t a one size fits all magic bullet via which every other fighter could expect to defeat Foreman.

    In fact, the rope a dope would likely have been suicide for any fighter not named Ali.
     
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  9. swagdelfadeel

    swagdelfadeel Obsessed with Boxing

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    Yup I've always believed Ali incurred serious, likely permanent damage in that bout.
     
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  10. HistoryZero26

    HistoryZero26 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Louis's single greatest attribute was his ability to bounce back from KD's or bad moments like nothing happened. It was impossible to get the momentum against him. If he got rocked or knocked down it meant nothing. Schmeling fought Louis at a time Louis had never had things go wrong. Louis had walked through Max Baer, Carnera, Uzcudchin and Retzlaff like they were nothing. There was no reason to expect Schmeling to be different.
     
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  11. he grant

    he grant Historian/Film Maker

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    of course he did .. it wa a brilliant performance ..Louis made adjustments and the rest is history ..
     
  12. 723

    723 Delusional Old-Head + New Boxing Fan (on a hiatus) Full Member

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    - Louis repeatedly made a technical flaw (not bringing his left hand back up after jabbing).
    - Schmeling noticed this flaw from watching footage of Louis.
    - This flaw made Louis vulnerable to a perceptive counterpuncher with a formidable right cross.
    - Schmeling was a perceptive counterpuncher with a formidable right cross.

    That’s what happened. Louis was young, yes, but he already had what he himself considered his career-best performance the year before (against Max Baer).

    Schmeling’s win was legitimate and he thus holds the honour of being the only man to have ever beat (let alone knock out) the great Joe Louis in his prime years.
     
  13. Andre2000

    Andre2000 Active Member Full Member

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    What I also like about the first Schmeling fight from Louis’ perspective: It’s a loss that doesn’t need or ask for excuses or associated contemplations of what ifs or woulda, shoulda, couldas.

    Of course, Louis ended up materially righting his own ship. For others, it might’ve proved to be a substantive bubble burst or the beginning of a slippery slope thereafter.

    The first Schmeling fight is very much part of the Joe Louis story, his ability to come back from same and its contribution to Louis’ ultimate evolution into the great fighter he became.