Prime Mike Tyson vs FOTC Joe Frazier

Head movement Vs. head movement
Still I think in 1988 Tyson would have beaten FOTC Frazier (most likely by knockout).
"Speedkills" ideology would be disastrous for a pressure boxer. And in 1988, Tyson has the tools plus the speed to handle FOTC Frazier.

 

Tyson would HAVE to hope that he could launch an effective enough assault early in the fight to KO Frazier! I think Mike would start fast like he always did when he was at his best and he might even drop Joe at some point in the first couple of rounds. But FOTC Frazier might have been the toughest fighter to step in a ring! If you didn't literally KILL the guy he would just keep coming forward and BANG you consistently with HARD shots. And Joe would get stronger as the fight progressed--once Tyson got fatigued he would be DONE...FINITO!!

This is why I give Joe the edge in this hypothetical matchup. Tyson had NOWHERE NEAR FOTC Frazier's toughness and heart--not even close!! That would be the difference and because of those intangibles Joe would ultimately prevail!

 

Back and forth on this. I slightly lean towards Tyson at the moment but he needs to end it early.

 

One more point to consider! (This might be my favorite hypothetical matchup of all time LOL!! You KNOW that no matter what this matchup would be a WAR to end all wars!!)

Next to Sonny Liston IMHO NOBODY used intimidation as effectively as Mike Tyson in his peak years! (Michael Spinks was literally scared stiff and didn't want to leave the dressing room prior to their fight.) That was always a critical intangible Mike would have going for him and it gave him a psychological edge!

BUT..NO WAY that works on Frazier--who wasn't intimidated by ANYONE! (Even though Foreman annihilated Joe he wasn't intimidated by George--it was just a combination of a nightmare stylistic matchup and Frazier being a shell of his former self that led to the massacre.)

Frazier would probably snarl and laugh right in Tyson's face during the referee instructions. So that's a key intangible that Tyson would normally have going for him--but not against Frazier!! Just another element in why I think Joe ultimately prevails! (But as I said wayyyy back when this thread started--I'd cough up 5 bills for a ringside seat to this one without batting an eyelash!!)

 

Tyson plows through Frazier easily. It's not close at all. There is no way any Frazier could handle prime Tyson. KO before round 5.

 

Power: Tyson
Hand speed: Either even or slight edge Tyson
Chin: Tyson
Stamina: Frazier
Footwork: Tyson
Technique: Tyson
Accuracy: Even
Timing: Frazier
Defense: Slight edge Tyson
Body Shots: Even
Combinations: Tyson
Ring IQ: Frazier
Rhythm: Frazier
Versatility: Tyson
Heart: Frazier

7-3-5 advantage Tyson

I think because they both excelled at using beautiful head movement, weight shifting, and upper body movement, this would ironically become a very ugly, brutal fight.

There would be MANY clashes of heads. Frazier aggressively bores in grunting, bobbing and weaving, and never backs up. Tyson would be pivoting side to side like a pendulum and dashing in explosively. They inevitably ram into each other like 2 pissed off big horn sheep during mating season. Both love short hooks and digging to the body, so there'd be many "accidental" elbows, shoulder bumps, and forearm pushes.

The damage from all these fouls might even end up greater than the damage from clean punches landed as 71 Frazier had good defense and rhythm and 88 Tyson's defense was impregnable. Both guys had quick reflexes and excellent technique/timing, so they'd frequently be slicing air and missing each other early on or smothering each other's punches since they're so close fighting at phone booth range.

I think what this matchup boils down to is:

1) If Frazier can maintain his preferred close/range making it a rough inside fight. This keeps Tyson from having the room and leverage to loud up his scary mid range bombs or use the head movement to set up his brutal peak a boo combinations. Frazier was a far better inside fighter and Tyson could get uncomfortable and frustrated with a guy his own size constantly pressing into him. Tyson's style was designed to dash past the jab of tall athletic guys with fancy head movement and then give them hell with short, crisp combinations. This is almost impossible to do against the short stocky Frazier and would throw off Tyson's timing and momentum almost constantly.

2) If Frazier can manage to stay in the fight after the first 3-4 rounds. Sometimes Frazier was a slow starter, and Tyson was a consistently fast starter. If Tyson storms out round 1 and is able to land multiple clean hard shots, scores a knockdown, etc, it'll be a huge problem going forward. Tyson might simply do enough damage to end the fight before Frazier can even start smoking in the first place--rendering Frazier's advantages in stamina, rhythm, and work rate irrelevant. Tyson's combination of great power, great hand speed, and hyper aggression from the start is a big problem for a guy like Frazier who can only fight up close and personal.

Gun to my head, I think Frazier narrowly survives the early storm (probably needs to get off the floor at least once) and makes it a very brutal competitive war at ring center. Frazier's hand speed, relentlessness, and high volume of shots would earn Tyson's respect making him earn the win (might even drop Tyson). But I think ultimately, regardless of the details of how the fight turns out, Tyson wins in the end. He's just too well rounded for Frazier to beat in a head on clash.

Verdict: Tyson should win by TKO within 6-7 rounds in a brutal crowd pleasing fight.

 

Mike dumps Joe early, and Joe is having trouble in general the first three rounds. Mike shakes the hook off early, but Joe (after getting staggered badly in the fourth) lands it more and more often as Mike makes the mistake of pacing himself. Joe’s lion heart and perseverance has Mike getting a hugely swollen jaw by the eighth and he’s getting beat all over the ring in 10.

 

Bump.

My heart says Frazier, but my wallet says Tyson.

 

Frazier did not have two handed power,he never knocked anyone down with his right,let alone ko'd them .The best man Frazier actually knocked out was188lbs ,2 fights away from retirement Doug Jones,who had lost 2 of his previous 3 fights , a past prime ex light heavy. Tyson knocked guys out with either hand and I'm talking about super heavyweights. Frazier met one puncher on a par withTyson ,Foreman and got slaughtered twice,he doesn't get past the 6th round withTyson.Tyson shook off Ruddock's left hooks ,Frazier's won't be a problem.
Tyson is faster of hand and foot , a bigger puncher ,he carries two handed ko power, and has a better chin,he is physically superior to Joe in every department,this fight will not depend on heart,or stamina because Frazier won't be around
for the later rounds.

 

Couldn't have said it better myself. Tyson was 218.25 lbs at his best (against Spinks), Frazier was 205.5 lbs at his best (against Ali in their first bout). This answer also applies to Tyson vs Marciano.

 

Size wouldn't be the determining factor as the speed would be. Frazier wasn't slow, his hook was kinda quick. Tyson was a good bit faster. That's what made Tyson such a unique talent.

I could see Joe bobbing and weaving perhaps slipping some shots but eventually he will catch one square. Probably Tyson's uppercuts with either hand.
I'd be suprised if it goes past 5.

 

He would absolutely bring at least whatever intensity Tyson did, since we are assuming the same level he had against Ali in their first fight.
But it is questionable whether he could last at least until the middle rounds, where the tide is likely to turn.
Due to Tysons combination of speed & power.
Frazier was pretty fast & accurate, but Tyson even more so, with significantly more upple body muscle & greter punch resistence.

Although if it goes to 6 or so, Frazier is favored.
Tyson never faced nor matched the work rate of FOTC.
Which set the punch record for HWs.

 

Tua v Ibeabuchi set the record.

 

I have always said basically the same.

Although that is prime vs. prime: If Tyson is not washed up, but is past his peak, ESPECIALLY if he is in the long phae/most of his essentially second career where he was mostly looking for one big shot...

He may not get it.
A Botha-fight Tyson is one of many where he may not put together the movement & combinations necessary before Frazier takes him deep & then...glug glu glug.

Not even saying he would; but it becomes highly questionable with past prime Tyson if this will happen.
Like of the Ruddock fights, sure is likely.
much les so soon after prison, or hitting the late 1990's.

Agreed?