So, could Hrgovic win the Rumble if we swap him in for Ali?

He’d do at least as well as Lyle did.

 

Joy-Joy feelings, friend. What seems to be your boggle?

 

If Ali fought like Hrgovic against foreman, he would’ve been taken out the ring in a stretcher. No way Hrgovic wins this.

 

Much more like his fight against Zhang ... It's very possible because I have never seen that Foreman go ten or twelve rounds against a guy with those skills .. if Foreman fought with discipline using his jab anmd some pace he could win but if he tried the destroyed routine he gasses in my opinion ..

 

Regarding Parker/Whyte, it should also be noted, Parker was knocked down by a headbutt that the referee failed to call, and it affected him throughout the fight. By the the end of the fight, he'd begun to recover and knocked Whyte down himself but it was to little to late. Without the headbutt Parker wins decisively imo.

Regarding Fury, yes it's fairly obvious to anyone without an agenda, Fury was a much better fighter than Hrgovic and stands a much better chance of beating Foreman. I wouldn't favor him, but I'd certainly have zero qualms about anyone picking Fury there, and if Fury wins I wouldn't be the slightest bit surprised.

Prime Fury is much much faster than Hrgovic, is much more skilled as a boxer, and unlike Hrgovic actually tries to avoid incoming punches.

Parker much less likely to beat Foreman than Fury is but has a much much better chance than Hrgovic as well.

 

Peralta was much much more skilled than Hrgovic, even if he wasn't nearly as big.

 

I don't even understand your point .. a 200 pound 6' fighter and a 235 pound 6' 6" fighter ?

 

You said you’d never seen that Foreman go 10 or 12 rounds with a guy with those skills. You didn't mention size as part of the comparison, so that's what I was responding to with Peralta. Obviously Peralta wasn't the same size as Hrgovic (which I addressed in my response), but that wasn't the aspect of your argument I was addressing.

 

This is a fact.

I have no idea how this thread lasted 8 pages.

Getting countered, smothered, clinched, and missing punches all night is FAR more draining than actually landing on an opponent who is simply durable enough to not get blasted out from a clean punch. There's no comparison. I have actually fought before, and let me tell you I would 200% prefer an opponent like Hrgovic than Ali if I was having stamina problems lol.

 

Many here don't seem to understand that you'll gas yourself out much faster missing punches than landing them, even if the overall output remains the same.

 

Right but one is a big cruiser weight and the other is a super heavyweight , much bigger than Fireman with a longer reach, an exceptional chin and olympic medalist skills .. look at how gassed Foreman looked as noted by Cosell ...

This content is protected

(30:30)

 

I'm quoting you because you made a specific factual claim about what happened in the fight:

"I have, though, watched and rewatched the Ituama fight and it is telling that he only took big completely clean hits when he sensed Moses was done."

And that simply isn't true.

The punch stats don't support that interpretation at all. Compubox has Itauma landing nearly 40% overall and over 50% of his power punches. And importantly, the ninth round actually lowers Itauma's overall connecting percentage because his output and accuracy cratered from exhaustion. In other words, the statistics don't show Hrgovic suddenly becoming more hittable when Itauma was finished; , they actually show the opposite.

https://beta.compuboxdata.com/round-stats/16746

And this isn't merely a matter of relying on punch stats. ESPN's commentary on the sixth round explicitly noted:

"Itauma lands some clean shots and Hrgovic just can't get out of the way."

That's occurring well before the point you're saying Hrgovic had decided to abandon his defense because he knew Itauma was finished.

So I'm perfectly willing to grant the broader point that Hrgovic's pressure, conditioning, counters and ability to keep Itauma working were important to how he won. I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. But that's a separate argument from claiming the fight demonstrated exceptional punch anticipation or that Hrgovic only got hit cleanly once he stopped caring about defense.

The actual fight gives us a much less flattering picture of his ability to avoid punches: Itauma was landing cleanly and regularly before he was exhausted, and Hrgovic was having trouble getting out of the way of some of those shots.

You can argue that Hrgovic's tactical approach was excellent. I have no problem with that. But let's not retroactively turn a good tactical performance into evidence of defensive abilities that the fight itself doesn't demonstrate.

 

Right, I understand the size difference and mentioned it several times. I'm not arguing Peralta was comparable to Hrgovic physically. I was responding specifically to your point that you hadn't seen Foreman go 10 or 12 rounds with someone with those kinds of skills. Peralta is an example of Foreman going the distance with a considerably more skilled boxer, which is why I brought him up. Obviously Hrgovic presents a very different proposition aside from the skill disparity.

As for Foreman looking gassed against Peralta, he had been a professional for roughly eight months at that point and still won a pretty lopsided decision over a guy who was making him work hard to find him. I don't think that's particularly strong evidence for what would happen against Hrgovic. Hrgovic isn't exactly Marciano when it comes to endurance himself, to say the least. And as I mentioned before, there's also a big difference between swinging at an elusive target and throwing them at a guy who's right there to be hit. Missing repeatedly will drain you much faster, so if Hrgovic isn't making Foreman miss nearly as much as Peralta did (and he won't), Foreman isn't going to be expending energy at quite the same rate in the first place.

 

Cheers mate, great stuff.

 

Fair enough man, thanks for taking the time to answer. My point was, and remains, that although Moses landed cleanly throughout the fight, Hrgovic took a fair bit 'off' many of those punches. The punches he took, particularly in the last round were full blooded and zero attempt was made to ride them, or take anyrhing off of them. Whether this was due to his own fatigue or a certainty that the kid could not now hurt him is up for debate.

Punch stats will obviously show Moses landed lots of punches. I am not denying this, but the earlier punches apart from the odd outlier; the uppercut for instance, all had some of the sting taken out of them. This is my opinion, and I am more than happy to accept I might be wrong in this opinion, but it is what I saw. Many are suggesting Hrgo simply marched forward and 'wore' all of Moses punches with zero attempt made to ride or soften the blow. That is demonstrably untrue. He struggled with the speed and accuracy but his experience allowed him to take something 'off' the punches Moses landed.

Hope that clarifies my meaning, and apologies if there was a lack of clarity in my posts.

Have a wonderful day, peace and love, Px