the what fights did you watch today\scorecard thread.

Joe Frazier v Oscar Bonavena I (NY rounds scoring basis)

Round 1: Frazier
Round 2: Bonavena (scores 2 knockdowns)
Round 3: Frazier
Round 4: Frazier
Round 5: Frazier
Round 6: Frazier
Round 7: Frazier
Round 8: Frazier
Round 9: Even
Round 10: Bonavena

Total: 7-2-1 Frazier (actual scores: 5-4-1 and 6-4 for Frazier and a 5-5 but with NY's supplemental points with an even score, it became 7-5 for Bonavena, with Frazier taking a split decision)

Perhaps some of Oscar's thudding punches appeared more wicked at ringside, but I just felt Joe was doing most of the work in there and I had it much wider than the judges. Still, a good fight and it was great seeing these two back in action.

 

I had it almost exactly the same, Scar. The only difference was I scored round 9 to Frazier rather than even. Bonavena was always competitive but Frazier did the work. As you say, maybe at ringside things appeared different to the judges.

 

Finally getting around to this one and I'm glad I did. Here we go...

Jung Koo Chang v Sot Chitalada I (Lt Flyweight title)

Round 1: 10-9 Chang
Round 2: 10-9 Chang
Round 3: 10-9 Chang
Round 4: 10-9 Chang
Round 5: 10-9 Sot
Round 6: 10-9 Chang
Round 7: 10-9 Chang
Round 8: 10-9 Chang
Round 9: 9-9 Even (Sot's round but penalized a point for holding the back of Chang's head and hitting)
Round 10: 10-9 Sot (also, in a twist of fate, the ref appears to twist his ankle and the bout has to be paused in order for him to walk it off)
Round 11: 10-9 Sot
Round 12: 10-9 Sot

Total: 115-112 Chang (actual scores: 115-113, 116-112 and 119-112 all for Chang)

This was a very enjoyable contest. The film quality isn't the best but it didn't detract too much for me. Sot has to be the strongest flyweight I've ever seen (and this was at lt. fly) and it was that strength on the inside that allowed him to turn it on and out-muscle Chang so late in the fight. But this was prime Chang and despite the fact that he rarely jabbed or threw a combo - or even knew what one was - his attack was always there, which took the majority of rounds for me. One other thing, I don't know what was said about the butt that caused Chang's cut in the 6th round but I replayed it a couple of times and it was Chang who charged in causing his own cut.

SOAPBOX TIME: I know I gripe about the machinations that went on with the WBA and WBC but I can't help it. So here we go. Despite how well Sot did in this fight, especially so late in the fight, can anyone tell me what business he had getting this title shot, besides the obvious money that went into the WBC's pockets? The time was, when an Asian fighter received a title shot he at least had an OPBF crown adorned on his head or at the very least, had met and beaten a top contender. But this was Sot's 5th pro fight and had only taken part in 4 six round contests against club-fighters. So with all the ballyhoo (I used to love hearing Nat Fleischer use that term) from the WBC about their "ring safety", how could they condone and give their blessing to a proven world champ against a prelim novice, especially after the Davila-Bejines tragedy less than a year earlier? Don't get me started.

 

Prince Charles Williams v James Salerno (vacant USBA title)

Round 1: 10-9 Williams
Round 2: 10-8 Williams (scores a knockdown)
Round 3: 10-10 Even
Round 4: 10-9 Williams
Round 5: 10-9 Salerno
Round 6: 10-9 Williams
Round 7: 10-9 Williams
Round 8: 10-9 Salerno
Round 9: 10-10 Even
Round 10: 10-9 Salerno
Round 11: 10-9 Salerno
Round 12: 10-10 Even

Total: 116-114 Williams (actual scores: 116-114 and 114-113 both for Williams along with a 114-114 Even, Williams wins a majority decision)

I wanted to see a real barn-burner but this was not it. I won't say it was a stinker but it was OK. Probably the reason stemmed from Salerno's style which did not turn me on. He was 6'5" for a light heavy but this was no Bob Foster, his punches were more like pokes for lack of a better term. Still, when he could keep Prince off of him, the leverage from his right hand on the outside started to have an effect on Prince who was really fatiguing as this bout progressed. In the end, it was his 2nd round knockdown that gave Williams the win. As his career progressed, one has to be impressed with how he improved. Again, an OK fight, but nothing more.

 

Mark Kaylor v Errol Christie
Round 1 : 9 - 9 Both fighters down
Round 2 : 10 - 9 Christie
Round 3 : 10 - 8 Christie
Round 4 : 10 - 9 Kaylor
Round 5 : 10 - 9 Kaylor
Round 6 : 10 - 9 Kaylor
Round 7 : 10 - 9 Christie
Round 8 : Kaylor wins by knockout
Great fight - one of my favourites

 

About 3 weeks ago, I snapped shin in half and have been bed bound since. So I thought what better way than to spend my time, but watching guys I couldn't move like even when I could walk

I wrote a little (lot) about Canizales footwork.

Circling the Ring:

Canizales as an overall fight strategy, basically only circles left. He occasionally circles to his right for a quarter of a full circle around the ring at most, and it's almost always a very brief tactical use. For instance, if he circles to his right, it's to get off the ropes, set up a movement trap or just to switch things up.

However, when he circles to his his left, he chains together a few techniques which I quite like. Namely, the V-Step, Cross Step & Side Step. In a mechanical sense, it's easiest to see it as:
- He steps in, with the jab, pivots while close, steps out
- Swings right foot directly behind his lead foot,
- Lifts up lead foot, pushes off Right Foot, going left or forwards


Rhythm Step:

Canizales had a particular way of stepping back out of range, and rhythm stepping once as he did so. It's very interesting, and easy to miss, but I think it's quite interesting. He performs the movement by lifting up the rear foot and pushing off of his lead foot. As he is moving back, he'll bend his lead knee and draw the lead foot back underneath him just after he lands.

The benefit here is that when he brings the lead foot back underneath himself after stepping back; he has taken himself further out of range, just in case they follow him. Moreover, it brings the feet together. This is a very athletic position which brings ultimate freedom of movement. He can continue circling, step back in, step further out; shift to his right or left and you might even see him split step every now and then from here.

There's benefits when he brings his foot back into range too, when that's what he elects to do. The first is he is able to readjust his stance. You can see him step out into a hooker's stance; step out into a long bladed stance with the foot turned in for the jab, or the foot turned out for the overhand. The second is tied to this, and its ability to come back with punches. And another is that he's immediately able to defend, if the opponent tries to attack him. He can drop all of his weight into the bob or outside slip; or occasionally even the inside slip while stepping in the opposite direction.

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Taking Angles:

Taking angles is at the core of Canizales' style. He does it out at range, with his back to the ropes; while ring cutting or when his opponent is hurt. He's a master in using both head movement and footwork to create these angles; and moreover, he's a master at punching out of them. Because he uses them from so many different positions, it can be easy to miss that Canizales only really uses a few techniques in combination to cut these angles.

While you'll see Canizales circle to his left, you won't often see him take a deep angle there like he would to his right. He does take angles from here, all the time in fact, but he does so by slipping deep to the outside and stepping while he does so. However, when he does choose to commit himself to cutting an angle this way; he has a core set of techniques he uses.

Youll see him step his lead foot towards his opponents rear foot; slipping to the outside as he does; then coming back with a pivoting left hook or uppercut; then continuing to circle left.
- Step Left + Outside Slip -> Pivot

He begins circling right; before stopping dead and throwing the right hand. As he does, he leans far over his lead leg, he then pivots with both feet off the ground to regain his balance and in a new position relative to the opponent. He often uses this as the spring for a movement trap.
- Circle Right -> Stops -> 2 -> Lean Left -> Hop + Spin to Face.

And to get himself outside of their lead foot, instead of their rear; he really only uses like 3 or 4 techniques to get himself there. Firstly, he can start from most positions, but my favourite is from the outside slip. From there, he likes to roll to his right - but can do it without rolling - but more importantly, he either shuffles, or hops, or a combination of the two, to his right. This brings his lead foot to where his rear foot was a moment before. He then turns to face the opponent again, bringing him back into his stance.
- Outside Slip -> Shuffle to Right -> Turn Shift

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Footwork Traps


So far I've seen Canizales do two types of movement trap so far.

He sets up the first, a lateral movement trap, by backing up or circling right; then stopping when the opponent follows. This looks like a direction change in the opponents eyes, so when they try to catch him, he dips, and pitches an overhand.

Some other bits of bait I've seen him dangle on here was against Hardy, near the end of the fight; where he backed away from the jab until he was near the ropes, stopped and looked to direction change but instead landed huge overhand.

Another is where he'll simply show the direction change a few times before springing the trap. When combined with a roll or a dip under a punch, the opponent remembers; and what's more, is that it may even bring down the hands to punch low, making way for the overhand.

The second type of footwork trap I've seen him spring was a lineal footwork trap. This is where you make somebody think you're gonna step in or out, then hit them as they react to this information. In this case; the early KD in Seabrooks I, and the preceding ten seconds. Canizalez circles left, away from the ropes; Seabrooks follows with a 2, then a 1-2. Canizalez backs away on a line, jabbing. He stops near the ropes and steps in; pulls back, looks to step in again but bounces back; Seabrooks throws a 3-2 to catch him but misses. Canizalez moves in in the same way again and times an overhand, scoring the KD.

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An interesting mechanical note I had was about how he pushed off one leg. Occasionally, he'll bend his knee to push off of a leg, or bend his knee while in the air. It's weird and looks cool but I wonder if there's anything to it? I have no idea and can't test it.

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Time Stamps:

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This content is protected

Circling Left:
- Hardy II: 4:38

Entries:
- Seabrooks I:

Outside Lead Foot:
- Hardy II: 6:15, 6:50, 16:43
- Seabrooks I: 23:30

Outside Rear Foot:
- Hardy II: 15:30

- Seabrooks I: 10:07, 20:36, 23:20,

Landing with Weight Back:
- Hardy II: 18:47, 24:27

Lat Movement Traps:
- Hardy: 17:26, 25:07

Lin Movement Traps:
- Seabrooks: 3:27-3:37,


Rhythm Step:
- Hardy II: 4:20-4:50, 5:12, 5:23, 5:58, 6:23, 6:32, 6:43*

*When we look at that last one, we get a good look at how this is beneficial for Orlando. He steps back, draws his front foot underneath himself, and steps it back out. Hardy steps in to catch him here; Orlando, who obviously expects and sees coming in time; level changes as he puts his foot down; pushes back off the foot and skips back out of range, avoiding the 1-2-3. When he steps back this time, he rhythm steps again while much further out of range; and uses it to step to his right in case Hardy follows him.

 

H

Hi Noel.
I was close to ringside for this fight, and what a fight it was, the local pub hired a minibus to take about 12 of us to the arena, what I didn't know was the bus was full ( apart from me and my mate ) with Christie supporters ! very similar to when I went to the Green/ Stracey fight, and the bus was all Stracey fans , and I picked Green to win, sooo, when the talk got around to who was going to win, only little ole me, picked Kaylor, even my friend choked and went for Christie, as it turned out it worked well for me, I took a chunk of change off most of the bus, mind you the early rounds had me doubting, but Kaylor as always showed true grit, I liked and admired Christie, but felt he might fold under pressure, still memorable night of boxing.
stay safe Noel, chat soon buddy.
Mike.

 

Lovely story Mike
You really knew your stuff back then.Your tales of meeting some of the great fighters and the fights of that era are always interesting and entertaining.Hope you are keeping well,your friend Noel

 

Hi Mate.
You know what is really nice, that you believe me, means a lot , really does, I sort of take for granted all the fights and fighters I have seen. met, talked to, shared a drink with, it is only when nice chaps like you, point it out to me, that I feel privileged, it's been a long journey, took me down the road, and into Europe and America, mind you I was young and boxing mad back then, not so much now, the sport seems less honest, more charlatans, more fake, it's all about the money, take all this shenanigans with AJ and Fury, their are rich beyond their wildest dreams, their kids, kids, couldn't spend the money they have accrued, yet still they bicker about money, I look up to neither of them, and the mooted fight is of novelty value now, both past their primes, well past maybe, a lifetime ago, fighters fought to be area champions, and were proud to be so, the british title was held in reverence, if you only achieved this , your parents, friends, local community, were all puffed up about it, most I suspect would have been happy with a small terrace, or a semi, with a garage, now they are buying islands, thank the lord I stumbled on this site, it has rekindled my enthusiasm, I look forward to exchanging anecdotes and stories about yesteryear, I was taken aback a bit when I first joined with the hostility, and confrontations, of some posters, the lack of manners and respect, suffice to say, the forum is a much better place of late, and I think we benefit from that, rampled a bit I know.
chat soon Noel.
Mike.

 

Fantastic Mike and sums up my feelings about todays boxing as well

 

Antonio Tarver vs Eric Harding 1

1 Harding
2 Tarver
3 Harding
4 Tarver
5 Harding
6 Tarver
7 Harding
8 Tarver
9 Harding
10 Harding
11 Harding 10-8 knockdown
12 Harding

116-111 Harding

Interesting fight fought at a good pace between two southpaws more known for their counter punching.

Both fighters also went to the body well and the fight was pretty much even after the 8th round.

But at some point during the 9th round Harding broke Tarver's jaw. And from that point on Harding was in complete control also dropping Tarver late on aswell.

I think the 3 judges got the scoring spot on 116-111 x3, pretty much perfect scoring across the board.

All in all a solid fight worth watching and this loss was probably a blessing in disguise for Tarver. Because the winner was scheduled to fight RJJ and I think Tarver would've lost convincingly at this point.

 

George, good luck with your convalescence. Sounds really painful what happened to you. But keep the boxing stories coming if it helps passing the time. I always enjoy what you write.

 

If you’re taking requests on how to pass your reclining recovery time, knowing what a light heavyweight aficionado you are, I for one would relish spending time with a thesis from you on Archie Moore’s cross-armed defense (and, in particular, how he translated that to offense). I find that approach fascinating.

 

Would you believe me when I said I've already gotten that written, locked and loaded and it's completely unrelated to my injury

 

Defence:

Moore uses a mixture of guards, primarily depending on his range; and his stance. As we discussed, out beyond arm's length; Moore likes to be in a long bladed stance and he primarily adopts a long guard to match. He used this long guard along with the jab to close openings by creating obstacles, and control the flow of the fight. This could be in the form of framing off their arms, neck or shoulders, it could be long leverage blocks, or it could be using hand checks or handfighting. However, the long guard has it's weaknesses and as you'd expect, Moore had his own way of addressing these. The weaknesses with the long guard is that it creates openings but relies on the range to deny them from being exploited; and as it relies on having your arms extended, it's more open to hooks and uppercuts when thrown in combination.

His fix to these was to fold his arms back into himself, into a cross guard which he would use to block, parry, catch or pick off his opponents' punches with his elbows, forearms and upper arms; while also squaring his stance a bit more. He would fold his elbows while punching, or while operating the long guard, allowing him to defend and punch at the same time amidst exchanges.

The Cross Guard is obviously what Moore is known for; and he is the master at using it.
The basic position Moore would take is crossing his rear arm over his jaw and his lead arm either outstretched or across his chest. Some alterations to this basic set-up, include:
1) His lead arm crossed along his forehead, with the glove covering his chin for left hooks, and his rear arm crossed just below his chin, the upper arm covering for jabs and uppercuts.



2) The rear arm up in a high guard, the lead arm crossed to the rear hip, with the elbow spiked out to defend body shots, and his shoulder to protect his chin.


3) Both arms protecting his body; the rear arm further away from his chest, but crossed to his lead hip; and his lead arm crossed the opposite way, but with the glove under his armpit:


Aside from the positions of his hands, forearms, elbows and upper arms which Moore could retreat to, he also used torso and head movement to make many shots seem to glance off him. The most obvious of these, is the Shoulder Roll; however, Moore will also turn his back into the shots on both sides, or turn with shots as he caught them on his cross guard. This is a similar idea to how Canelo turns his head at the last moment, when all else has failed, to take all the stank off a punch which is definitely going to hit him, only Moore used his whole body and not his chin. As well as this, he also had a wide, wide variety of slips, weaves, leans and an excellent ability to level change.

His ability to slip created an excellent ability to counter the jab; which he used to great extent in almost all of his fights. He could slip outside and split the jab with a hook or counter jab; he could slip inside and shoot a right hand upstairs, or to the body. He had an excellent ability to weave under and outside of punches; which let him step out of action and reset, cause collisions allowing for some clinch work and really step into his left hook.

Moore leaned over his feet quite often; sometimes over his front foot to draw shots or meddle with distance; sometimes as he retreated, putting more distance between his opponents' hands and his head; or often out of the side with a pivot to escape exchanges or an infight safely and at an angle.

A key part of how Moore got close to his opponents was by using the Bob and Weave in combination with his cross guard. This made both more effective, as having your arms crossed across your face and jaw will make a smarter fighter to punch higher up on the head, which makes it easier for Moore to weave under punches. As Moore was bent forward at the waist and weaving up and down; the opening to body created by in having both arms across the face, is harder to hit; while helping defend against the uppercut and shots to the chest which are more prevalent threats while moving in.

Bobbing with the jab is among Moore's most used tactics, which allows him to close the distance and avoid getting hit; it's a great strategy to proactively avoid shots and a better strategy at creating openings and panic in opponents. An incoming, moving target is always a threat, and this allowed Moore to use his crowding footwork to get them to the ropes, create the collision he wants to close the gap and let him use the jab and body work to open up their guard on the way.

I've mentioned a bunch of different ways Moore avoids being punched in the face, but as you may think; why? Why doesn't he pick a couple of ways and get really good at them? The reason why is simple; variety. If Moore was to water down his skillset - even if he improved at the techniques which remain - the improvement would not make up for the sheer amount of options which Moore can draw from. Defensive variety is essential in defusing traps and keeping yourself from being predictable and set up. If a fighter is unable to land, they'll be hesitant to throw unless they're using it to land something else; and the defensive worsens their chance to do so. Example: in the first round against Bivins; in about a 30 second period, Moore blocks a jab on his cross guard; slips to the outside of one then the inside of the next, down parries a fourth and rolls under a fifth, and as a result, Bivins couldn't really build off the jab in a meaningful way.

Something else Moore would do, could be considered described as Presenting a False Target. What I mean by this, is Moore would give an obvious opening to his opponents. Be it a huge gaping hole to the left hand side of his head; a big spot to the body in the cross or his guard; or by leaning closer to them. Often, Moore will do this when he's in a position to remove the threat of one of their hands (eg, moving far enough past their lead hand so their rear hand is no longer an option until they pivot). These false targets are entirely built to get the response he wants; it's much easier to defend, counter or set traps/patterns when you're controlling what they're throwing. And if they don't throw; Moore has either lost nothing, or gotten close to them depending on how he did it.

In Moore's fights with Marciano and Durrelle, Moore demonstrates an incredible aptitude for fighting with his back to the ropes. As one of the finest counter punchers ever; Moore was completely able to fight off the ropes, sucker someone into range and give them a big ****ing crack. The key principles about having a boundary in combat sports; is that once you're up against it, you lose 180° of direction to move in, you can no longer control the range as you have no space behind you, and your stance will square out naturally as a bladed stance loses its benefits and becomes impractical. However, Moore used these things to his advantage when his back was on the ropes. He didn't have to control range, as his ability to guage it was so refined; he wanted the other guy to walk into his trap like a fly into a spider web. He'd work his counters off the ropes, while remaining squared up behind his cross-guard and allowing his opponent to decide if this trapped, old man was worth going after.

Moore will use the give in the ropes to lean and bounce around, the movement keeping him a slippery target. He'll also use his torso movement to slip out to the side for a better angle to counter; it's hard to tell if there's any half steps involved due to 50s camera angles, but I find it very likely. Sinking into the ropes with his cross guard seemed to help him make the small twists and rolling of shots off his guard.

Moore's ability to use multiple defensive techniques one after another, fluidly and well balanced is as good as anyone his size. Chaining Defence is an essential skill for almost every fighter at a high level, and those who lack it - think Amir Khan, Terry Norris or Dillian Whyte or someone like that, are usually KOd in brutal fashion. Not Moore though, his defence operates like an organised and well maintained watch.