Why is it not held against Holmes legacy more that he was never the undisputed HW champion of boxing

Most enjoyable thread I have seen in ages.

 

Cheers, JT (again).

 

Around and around we go.

The fights had to be viable.

Again, you’re not even reading the responses.

He tried to fight Coetzee.

He’d beaten Weaver, who’s resurgence had come to an end against Dokes.

Dokes was steered away.

Larry then fought Witherspoon (10)

Bey (3)

Smith (6)

Then Williams, before having 2 fights with Spinks, which ended his reign.

There was only Thomas who he should have fought, who you can really criticise.

There was nothing wrong with an ageing champion taking on Witherspoon.

Yes, at the specific moment he fought Witherspoon, nobody knew how good he was, and what he’d go on to do afterwards.

But to turn him down?

I don’t understand your level of thinking.

On every post, you’ve criticised where he supposedly avoided the better fighters to have fought lesser ones.

So if he’d have not fought Witherspoon then, and he’d not have gotten the opportunity later, you’d be hammering him.

You would never accept me saying to you that he wanted Tim to establish himself first, and that he planned on fighting him.

Also, when did you want him to fight Witherspoon, and who did you want him to fight instead?

Again, look at the circumstances and view the timelines.

Me and JT have had a great argument/debate, and even he doesn’t believe that he ducked Dokes

So apart from Thomas, who were these deserving high ranked opponents who were viable??

 

Apart from Thomas, who I’ve agreed with on multiple occasions, who were these deserving high guys you’re referring to, who were viable??

 

Larry consistently fought top 10 guys before his reign came to an end.

And after Spinks had beaten him, he signed up to HBO’s 1986 HW unification tournament.

 

Good to hear.

 

What a great post.

An absolute pleasure to read.

There’s a few things that I wasn’t aware of there.

Such as Weaver trying to fight Cooney.

This is what I want to see.

Great informative posts, by people who were there at the time.

I was only really young back then.

I’ve studied up on Larry’s career, but I didn’t know what it was like to have lived through a Larry-Ali fight.

What was the general reaction like when Ali went on to sign for the Berbick fight?

This is a great thread, with some great knowledge being shared, by yourself and JT etc.

I’d like to get JT’s response to your post.

I think Weaver was a good, exciting fighter, and a rematch would have been great. But I just don’t see how you can criticise or question why it didn’t happen, and especially early in 81.

 

Thanks a lot for the replies.

I can reply to you, but I’m on holiday at the moment and I’m posting off of my phone.

Also, I fear that at this point, that we’d just be going tit for tat, where we wouldn’t be posting anything of substance.

If you and others would appreciate a proper reply, I can reply after I’ve returned home.

If not, we’ll leave it there.

Thanks a lot for the debate.

 

Hey thanks mate you too, I'm just about debated out hahaha

I'll probably post another article in later days for a glimpse into the scenario, but it will just be a stand alone.

 

Ha!

It’s great to have a proper debate with knowledgeable people.

Great. I’ll look forward to that.

 

With Spinks being the champion signed to fight Ali who was the number 1 contender, Norton was basically the best available opponent for him at this stage.

Lewis dropped the belt not to fight the number 1 mandatory contender in Byrd and then fought Vitali who was ranked number 9 (after signing to fight Kirk Johnson who wasn't even in the Top 10). You can argue Byrd wasn't the number 1 contender as the number 1 contender was Wlad, but he didn't fight him either.

 

Should also be noted that thr rematch with Joshua was delayed due to Usyk serving in the military. Then Fury wasted the early part of 2023 by pretending to negotiate for a fight he had no intention of taking.

If not for this I think he.would have faced at least one more mamdatory.

 

Very true.

 

Interesting about Holmes on a Weaver rematch: https://www.caymancompass.com/1983/05/18/holmes-hopes-to-get-weaver

 

Some other interesting bits:

No. 1 and No. 2 contenders Greg Page and Renaldo Snipes will meet in a 12-round heavyweight fight for the U.S. Boxing Association title and a shot at Holmes late in the year.

'It's not important to unify the title,' added Holmes, who also said he would not fight unless the WBC makes an exception to its new rule that title fights go 12 rounds rather than 15.

'I'll ask them for 15 rounds. If someone wants my title, they can take it like I took it. If it's not 15 rounds, I'll renege.'

https://www.upi.com/Archives/1983/0...s-will-defend-their-respective/5987414306000/