Marquez at #1 P4P is debatable but there is no reason for him to be behind Calzaghe!

Pacman looked like a buffon in the 8th rought taking a beatdown from piller to post. :good Juan Manuel P4P#1. He beat Manny both times, and a win over Diaz is rubbish.

 

Pac

Calzaghe

JMM


But its close between all 3. Why are people getting their knickers in a twist about it. Any version of those 3 at the top is perfectly acceptable. As fot there being 'no reason' for JMM to be behind Calzaghe is a total nonsense, If someone has him losing to Pac, there is no reason that that person shouldn't place him behind Calzaghe.

 

Diaz ko'ed sta.cruz who gave hell to casa who at the other hand, jmm beat. That can also be regarded as a rubbish win by jmm...

Hypocrite...

 

I'm not a hypocrite.

Any Boxing fan with sense knows that a stoppage win over Casamayor is better than a stoppage win over Diaz. :good

 

Sure they were, BUT they also where the BEST fighters at that time. C'mon now lets be reasonable here. Nobody, and I mean NOBODY was better than those 3 at that time. Not Guzman, not Valero, nobody. When Pac fought Morales the 2nd time, Guzman hasn't even fought Barrios yet, he was virtually INEXPERIENCED at that time. He was untested. Same with Valero, hell even now Valero IS untested. The toughest fight he's been in was against Mosquero. Who's Mosquero again?

This is what I keep telling those people who keep saying that Pac only fought "old" fighters and not the young and prime ones:

Those "old" fighters(EM, MAB and JMM) at the time in which Pac fought them, would've seriously kicked the asses of those "young and prime" fighters that you keep demanding Pac should've fought. Pac didn't fight those 3 just for the money, he fought them because they where the best fighters that 126 and 130 had to offer. Whether or not they were "old" is completely irrelevant.

 

Damn True, they will still say the excuse of Morales and Barrera are shot when Pac fought them since they can't take they're fighters were defeated. Heck Morales give Diaz 1 hell of a fight after he fought Pac. Barrera made JMM kiss the canvass after he fought Pac.
If Pac fought those guys they say they're old and shot. If JMM fought old guys they say hes god now.
So if Pac fought Casamayor would people say hes great too or they'll probably say his old too?

 

Responding to the thread title -

I wouldnt exactly say that there is NO reason to have Calzaghe ahead of Marquez, that may be slightly exagerrated but I wont argue until blue in the face if someone even wants to put JMM as their No1 p4p as he is a fabulous fighter thats rightfully getting his own overdue respect.

My personal p4p top 3 are....
1. Pacquiao
2. Calzaghe
3. Marquez

Ps. Calzaghe has never lost & beat 3 well rated fighters in Lacy (28 & undefeated), Kessler (28 & undefeated) & Hopkins (Legend) & the only fight were he didnt look like THEE BEST fighter in the world was vs Hopkins & nobody looks good vs Hopkins & he did still win so JCs position is justified for now.

I thought JMM beat Pac 7-5 in their last fight but Pac beat Barrera clearer than JMM (I thought JMM beat Barrera aswell but not as clear) & has looked more dominant vs other fighters recently than JMM has but make no mistake, if JMM beats Pac then its undisputable thate should be No1.

 

In Pac's case it's easy, just look at his resume, he beat everyone worth beating so far. His move to fight DLH might be considered a joke to some but in Pacquiao's case(as easily obvious) he's in for a really dangerous fight not many are giving him a chance in. If he comes out victorious in that he only confirms his #1 position even more. Not to forget that the #2 or #3(depending where people want to rate Marquez) is a fighter Pacquiao already beat.

 

Thanks for replying. Let me ask you one more question. How far do you go in a boxers resume when determining positions in the P4P rankings.

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..... should we take into consideration this year only, or from last year till now... or from where?:think ...you know what I mean....

I am going out right now, I have to do something very important ..... when I come back (in two hours) I am going to reply to your comments and give you my opinion. :good

 

The time line of those fights, and the fights in between with nondescript opposition shows that Guzman was available. I can see the Valero fight not happening. Now Valero can fight in Texas, yet Arum took Valero's papers to Nevada because he wanted the fight in Vegas. Arum just wants to say he tried to make the fight. Valero has a license to fight in the state of Texas. I'm getting tired of the PAc money fights. Now it's Dlh, then Hatton. I mean give us fans a break. A fight with Valero is a gun fight at the O.K corral. I hope Paulie beats the heck out of Hatton.

 

Dlh is old, and fighting at 147. I picked PAc to stop Dlh. Pac's resume is filled with great names(the big 3), but those fighters were not who they used to be when PAc fought them. PAc is number 1 because of his exciting style, and because Floyd retired. The last few number 1 pfp champs were dominant champs at the times they were ranked #1. PAc is not a dominant champ. He is a good/great fighter. Imo, Pac lost his last fight with Marquez. I'm not hating on PAc because I love the mans style. Just telling it like it is...

 

I was not really talking about any particular boxer, I just mentioned a number to see your answer. I personally see the P4P rannking based on a system totally flawed and inconsistent, and that's why I wanted to know how you come up with such positions.

Now, since you mentioned Pac let me make a comment, I have been reading/hearing words like COURAGE, HAVING BALLS, RISK and now "DANGEROUS" since this fight was signed. Can you tell me where the danger is for Pac in this fight that ISN'T health related? or why this fight is so dangerous for him.

"Being in danger" and not having a chance at winning are two different things, I hope you are not mixing the two.

 

Why wouldn't I mix the two?, losing can relate to having health problems considering how the loss is. Some fighters can die in there and the danger here is VERY obvious, the major size advantage for Oscar over Pacquiao is what everyone is talking about, I don't even need to mention it. And yes, it can cause him health problems considering how Pac loses, losing by KO can always affect a fighter mentally and physically which relates to health problems.

 

when will this jmm won over pac ever stop. it's history now live with it. boxing has a history of very close fights ali should have lost twice to norton, hoya vs trinidad was controversial,and so was mayweather vs castillo, even leonard vs hagler was too close too call, others would say that even al gore should have won the presidency. you know what separates these guys from jmm? these guys know how to accept defeat gracefully. the difference between idiots and gentlemen, is that idiots never stop complaining, real gentlemen accept defeat and yet live another day to face the challenges ahead of them. so it's all up to you people want to be swallowed by your emotions and never stop complaining.

 

The health related (risk) problems are part of every single fight, and yes they might increase when you fight someone bigger than you, but the majority of boxers who have become damaged goods are a result of competitive fights or fights between fighters in the same weight class.

Boxers used to fight 15 rds in championship matches and was changed to 12 rds since Deuk Koo Kim died after fighting Mancini. Both were in the same weight class 135 Lbs.

Yes, the vast majority of posters have being talking about the size of Hoya as a reference to support their case that Hoya will beat Pac, but they are not talking (seldom times maybe) about Hoyas size and making direct reference to Pac's health.


Any how, the question is, why are we talking about all this now? Why nobody talked about the health of Forbes last May, or Roy Jones when he fought Ruiz.....