Sorry for the modern intrusion, but Roy Jones - if he beats Joe where does he place?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Oct 4, 2008.


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  1. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I agree with your propositions, but Calzaghe is a tough *******. If he has anything left he is not going to get KO'ed by Roy, doesn't matter if he falls out of the ring and lands on solid concrete.

    Hops caught him off balance and dropped him, I think Jones could do it too, but the odds of it finishing Joe off, or of finishing him off when he rises, are VERY slim.
     
    sweet_scientist, Oct 4, 2008
    sweet_scientist, Oct 4, 2008
    #16
  2. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I have him above Monzon, Jofre and Chavez out of these 25.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #17
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    "Which one of these two do you think has the quicker handspeed?"

    This question is flapping around general quite a bit at the moment. Means nothing, of course. It is not possible for Jones to beat Calzaghe on points in my estimation (though...Vegas baby) so who has the split second is not going to be all that crucial.

    This is all about Roy Jones. I read recently that Jones was approached after the Trinidad bout conerning his performance, and it was put to him by journalists that he could have knocked Trinidad out. "I know that now", was Roy's reply - he had since seen the tape.

    It is said of Jones that the back to back KO's ruined him, that he became so obsessed in the ring with avoiding being hurt that he became a safety first fighter, one concerned, primarily with remaining unhurt (was this always the case? - that's a whole other thread). Jones recognises his flaws, that is my opinion.

    Is Jones just here for a payday? Possible.

    Is Jones just here for the bright lights, one last time? Possible.

    Is it also possible, however unlikely, that Roy has taken this fight - one he campaigned for, having made millions against shot Trinidad in a sparring session - to right some wrongs and correct these flaws. Yes, I think that is possible. I also think, if it were true, it would be one the most thrilling occurances in the history of boxing because that Roy - capable of following up on his punches, of taking a chance - has a slim chance of winning by KO.

    Some people are talking about skipping this one. I'll be there with bells on. And a big smile on my face, too.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #18
  4. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    It would mean much for him. But it also depends how Joe looks, if it is visible that Joe is shot himself it does not mean much but if Joe proves in the fight he still has it and still loses it´s huge for Jones and would move him up quite a bit. He still would miss out my Top25 but only narrowly.
     
    Loewe, Oct 4, 2008
    Loewe, Oct 4, 2008
    #19
  5. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I totally believe that Jones earnestly feels he can win and he is going to get everything he has left out of himself. He's not here for the pay day, or for a retirement send off.

    Are you a Jones fan Macca?

    If you are, just don't be disappointed when the inevitable happens, that's all I'll say :good
     
    sweet_scientist, Oct 4, 2008
    sweet_scientist, Oct 4, 2008
    #20
  6. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Right now or if he beats Calzahge? Right now that seems a bit high for me.
     
    Loewe, Oct 4, 2008
    Loewe, Oct 4, 2008
    #21
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    No.

    I want Roy to win this one, but I don't think he will. That's the truth as I see it. My point is - I can envisage possibilities where his winning can count for something.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #22
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Right now. I think that it is impossible to defend in any other way than based upon how Jones looks - which is, at his very best, almost without peer.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #23
  9. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    Well, didn´t know you are that much into the looks of a fighter :lol:

    Seriously, if you go by how somebody looks on film Jones is up there with the greatest that´s for sure and I can see your argument. But when you include how a fighter looks on film in your ratings, isn´t that an unfair advantage against fighters who are no or only little grainy film about?
     
    Loewe, Oct 4, 2008
    Loewe, Oct 4, 2008
    #24
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I would say what about the opposite point of view? Why punish fighters who look extraordinary on film because of the small % of fighters for which we have no film?

    I would also point out that guys of whom there are little or no film do well on my list, Langford(1), Greb(3) and Holman Williams(50) being the best examples.

    I do my best to cobble together comparable appreciations of these fighters from what little we have and from contemporary accounts. Not perfect, but the best I can do!
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #25
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I'm sorry, it is just not possible to discern the value of a given win BEFORE the fight has happened. It's the version of the fighter that appers in the ring that is of issue here.

    Coming of his Tyson win, Douglas is a scalp. From watching the fight we know there is a difference between the Douglas that fought Tyson and the one that fought Hollyfield.

    This Jones may have been around for a while, but all that is neccessary for this one to be different is for around half of what Jones has said to be true. I'm not saying that will happen, but I'm saying dismissing Joe out of hand for losing before he's lost to a fighter you're imagining is presumtious to say the least.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #26
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Probably there will be calls for him to defend his Ring belt, yes.
     
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    McGrain, Oct 4, 2008
    #27
  13. Loewe

    Loewe internet hero Full Member

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    That wouldn´t be punishing fighters we have no film for, it would just even out the categories. I think we should take the lowest common factor to rank fighters because that´s what all fighters have common and so it´s fair. That´s how I do it.
     
    Loewe, Oct 5, 2008
    Loewe, Oct 5, 2008
    #28
  14. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Jones Jr is a shadow of the fighter he once was. As has been stated if he beats Calzaghe it will be more damning on Joe rather than kudos to Jones.

    Sadly Jones wasted his great talents by for whatever reason, not fighting the fights he needed to, in his 90s prime.

    Jones should be up there challenging Robinson for the greatest fighter of all-time title. Instead he is in a close debate as to whether he was the best fighter of his era. Which is terrible for someone with his skills and potential; sadly, beating Calzaghe does not paper over them cracks....

    Jones was brilliant, but he should of been so much more.
     
    TBooze, Oct 5, 2008
    TBooze, Oct 5, 2008
    #29
  15. rekcutnevets

    rekcutnevets Black Sash Full Member

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    I believe Jones was a victim of time as much as anything. There were not really many other fighters to face.

    Jones versus Gerald McClellan was rumored to be in the making if McClellan got past Nigel Benn. I think that Jones should have made a way for the Benn fight to happen, but he was demanding an insane amount of money for that fight for some reason. Benn did go on to lose to Thulanin Malinga a year after defeating McClellan. Malinga had been previously ko'd by Jones.

    Jones could have faced Dariusz Michalczewski, but refused to go to Germany to do so. Michalczewski went on to lose to Julio Cesar Gonzalez. Gonzalez had already lost to Jones.

    Jones could have faced Calzaghe earlier in his career. Calzaghe was beginning his title reign at 168 about a year after Jones began his run as a light heavyweight. I hear there was a proposed match between the two fighters in the early 2000's, but Calzaghe was an unknown then. A victory over Joe would have proved very little.

    I really don't know of any fighters Jones could have faced to improve his legacy. If he'd defeated Tyson, it would have done wonders. I always felt that he had nothing to keep Tyson away, and the 1st round ko he suffered would do nothing but help Mike's standings. Maybe Jones could have campaigned at cruiserweight, other than that; I think he did about all he could.
     
    rekcutnevets, Oct 5, 2008
    rekcutnevets, Oct 5, 2008
    #30
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