Freddie Roach has unconventional exercises to improve chin

Discussion in 'Boxing Training' started by TommyRyan44, Oct 11, 2008.


  1. TommyRyan44

    TommyRyan44 Member Full Member

    174
    0
    Jun 8, 2007
    Amir Khan searching for remedy after refusing to take defeat on the chinThe Times, October 9, 2008
    A boxer can do a hundred abdominal crunches, a thousand press-ups and dance with a skipping rope all day. He can learn the art of attack and defence. But one question, particularly pertinent to Amir Khan, continues to vex even the wisest boxing brains (and that is not an oxymoron) - can anything be done about a glass chin?
    “If we knew the answer, that would be like solving the biggest mystery in the history of all boxing,” Emanuel Steward, one of the sport's premier trainers, once said. Angelo Dundee, who guided the great Muhammad Ali, sees no great mystery. “You can't train a chin,” he said, simply.
    Yet that is what Khan, 21, will be attempting under the tutelage of Freddie Roach at his Wild Card Gym in Los Angeles when the young Briton heads west next week to rebuild his career. The trainer is devising a series of exercises, based on martial arts techniques, to “deaden the nerves on the jaw”, or at least try to condition them so that one big blow does not again leave Khan resembling a puppet cut loose from its strings. “Is it sound? I'm not sure,” Roach said. “But we've learnt some Thai techniques working with Manny Pacquiao [the Filipino world lightweight champion]. He was suffering with blows to his body, so, using martial arts, he got us to hit him with a stick.
    “I'm not saying we are going to be hitting Amir Khan with a stick, but there is a belief you can deaden the nerves using pressure, tension, wrestling exercises with the chin on the ground. We'll try and deaden, or toughen, those nerves on the tip of his jaw.”
    Most of the time will be spent trying to alter Khan's style so that he is not hit so often and does not suffer the sort of knockout blow that cost him a surprise 54-second defeat by Breidis Prescott in Manchester last month. It was his third knockdown in 19 professional bouts.
    But the gym work on Khan's suspect jaw does raise, again, the question of whether a boxer can physically alter his ability to withstand a heavy blow or whether, for better or worse, he is stuck with his chin. “Not every great boxer has a great chin,” Roach said. “It is like a big puncher. They can be improved, but you generally get what you are born with.”
    That has not stopped Roach embracing those martial arts techniques, usually employed to toughen up shins and feet for kickboxing and similar disciplines. There have long been theories, their effectiveness unproven, about strengthening the jaw muscles or conditioning the neck.
    According to Dr Barry Jordan, a neurologist who was once chief medical officer for the New York State Athletic Commission and has researched boxing's effects on the brain, there are several factors to consider when weighing up why some boxers collapse while others, from George Chuvalo to Antonio Margarito, seem capable of withstanding sledgehammer blows.
    Jordan believes that anticipating the punch and possessing strong neck muscles assist a boxer. There is little doubt that Khan not only has a suspect chin but sticks it out, too. “I think he's made mistakes looking for the big knockout because then you put yourself in harm's way,” Roach said. “He started out knocking people down with one punch, but the higher you climb, you need to protect yourself.”
    Yet Jordan believes that, while training can make a boxer better able to roll with the punches, the glass chin is a weakness that is handed out at birth. “We know that there is a gene that makes certain boxers liable to neurological impairment over the long term and, while no one has ever conducted detailed research on the effects of one punch, a good chin is about a fighter's genetic predisposition to tolerate punishment,” he said. “In layman's terms, the blow, the sudden acceleration and rotation of the head, causes a disconnection. The ability to withstand that may alter during the career of a boxer.”
    But, as far as he can tell, a boxer's tolerance cannot be greatly affected in the gym. If Khan is stuck with this weakness, his best hope is to not get hit, which is why he is spending the next six weeks with Roach. “They say Willie Pep didn't have a great chin, so he changed his style,” Roach said. “And we are talking about one of the greatest boxers of all time. We will be talking to Amir about the way he stands, holds his hands, everything.”
    Khan will spar with Pacquiao, the world champion who faces Oscar De La Hoya in December, which should help him to become accustomed to heavy punches and please those who believe that a glass jaw is a matter of heart as much as chin.
    No amount of work, though, may solve the abiding mystery of the porcelain jaw. “After that sort of knockdown, some guys roll over and die,” Roach said. “Some get better. Amir seems pretty positive to me, but I really won't know - no one will - until he's back in the ring.”
    This content is protected


    I found this at http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/?go=forum.posts&thread=1353983&forum=15&page=1&pc=12

    What do you guys think? Didn't Dempsey strengthen his chin by chewing on gum or something?
     
  2. tommy the hat

    tommy the hat Active Member Full Member

    1,151
    9
    Sep 2, 2008
    I think that doing neck exercises with weights and developing the trapezius muscles do help in increasing your resistance to a good shot to the head. But doing them religiously will not guarantee anybody will develop a granite jaw. Alot of it is just determined with how a person's body is wired. Some guys get hit in the right spot, and their brain just blacks out and the next thing you know they are on the canvas. Not much you can do to change the body's neurological system. You can only try to strengthen the neck muscles, develop a tight defense, and utilize more head movement to try to compensate for whatever shortcomings the body's wiring has.
     
  3. RDJ

    RDJ Boxing Junkie banned

    13,158
    9
    Sep 27, 2005
    The nerves on the chin aren't what knocks a man out, vibration of the brain is. Now unless they plan on deadening his brains I doubt it'll help much.
     
  4. Big N Bad

    Big N Bad Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,990
    12
    Nov 29, 2007
    does having big legs or big bones help absorb take a shot. personally i feel this helps alot, you might get buzzed heavily upstairs but it doesnt affect the legs.
     
  5. dwilson

    dwilson Guest

    They should try bubble wrap or put his head in a jiffi bag.
     
  6. Quickhands21

    Quickhands21 Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,084
    10
    Nov 10, 2007
  7. scrap

    scrap Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,437
    64
    Jul 15, 2006
    Its where the Head is in relation to the Coxxyx Bone your centre of gravity, and where the Feet put it.
     
  8. Big N Bad

    Big N Bad Well-Known Member Full Member

    1,990
    12
    Nov 29, 2007
    :huh
     
  9. Kolya

    Kolya Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,963
    42
    Jul 21, 2004

    You would think that doing some neck and trapezius exercises would help; I do those a fair bit and I can take an ok punch.
     
  10. JMonster

    JMonster Active Member Full Member

    1,156
    0
    Mar 8, 2005
    ya a knockout is caused when ur brian hits ur skull. i believe most of it is mental and if u r prepared to see it coming. i do also believe though that working on what they r can help. it's not only one thing
     
  11. scrap

    scrap Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,437
    64
    Jul 15, 2006
    Big N Bad, Its all down to Poor Biomechanics in the First place where as a rule the problem lies. The body is there to give the Head a thing called Oral stability, Giving the whole Balance. Giving your senses better awareness and Balance and ability to observe whats Happening, so it can adapt in good Posture to anything thats going to happen as regards the forces of Gravity, coming your way. :good
     
  12. Boxaholic

    Boxaholic Member Full Member

    302
    0
    May 27, 2008
    That doesnt make alot of sense. Why deaden the nerves when its the brain smacking into your skull that knocks you out? A buttload of neck work and defense work is all you can really do. How I understand it the actual chin has little if nothing to do with it, its all your brain and the cerebral fluid. If you bareknuckle boxed I could see a reason for it but...with gloves?
     
  13. Arka

    Arka New Member Full Member

    0
    7
    Sep 26, 2008
    It's to do with the brain-not the nerves in the jaw muscles...:patsch
    Boxers generally target the temples of the skull or the side of the jawline.
    The thalamus,is the central relay system of the brain and associated with sleep and consciousness.

    It is located in the centre of the brain and parallel to the temples.
    This content is protected

    I would guess that the trauma from a shot to the temple,would cause the thalamus to temporarily shut down-causing unconsciousness.
    A shot to the jaw could make the entire brain matter, surrounding the centre,to violently rotate and temporarily cut off the arteries supplying blood to this region-again causing unconsciousness.
    This content is protected
     
  14. scrap

    scrap Boxing Addict Full Member

    6,437
    64
    Jul 15, 2006
    The more the Thalamus is out of the vertical plane with the Coxxyx, theres more chance of greater impact occuring and less ability to react to outside Forces. :good
     
  15. Jazzo

    Jazzo Non-Facebook Fag Full Member

    9,543
    4
    Feb 5, 2006
    The neurologist put it best.

    Certain people can take more punishment than others.

    If it is changeable then it is changeable by a small amount only.