Pernell Whitaker above 135: Proof of Greatness

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by DINAMITA, Oct 15, 2008.


  1. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    We all know Sweet Pea is a true ATG in every sense of the word. I personally think he is the greatest fighter of the past 25 years - a real Master Boxer.

    And we all know how good his wins over Nelson, Ramirez II, Haughen, Buddy McGirt and the "win" (brilliant performance) against Chavez were.

    But whenever there are discussion about Whitaker, I never hear his win over Julio Cesar Vasquez being mentioned.

    One of the crucial and often overlooked points that justifies me rating Whitaker so highly is his highly underrated physical strength, chin and infighting ability that really came to the fore when he moved up in weight.

    Whitaker was not like Mosley. Pernell was 5'6", a very natural lightweight who I believe could've stayed comfortable at that weight for longer than he did, but moved up purely to enhance his greatness/legacy. (by comparison, IMO Mosley at 5'9" was always big for a lightweight, he struggled to stay there, and looked like a proper welterweight by the time he got there, he was never dwarved at 147).

    When you watch Sweet Pea in the McGirt fight, and even the Chavez fight, at 147, it is very evident that he is a naturally smaller man. His shoulders, back, torso etc are noticeably those of a smaller weight fighter. And yet against both Chavez and McGirt, two very strong fighters, Whitaker never looks like he is the weaker man in the ring.

    This was also the case against Oscar De La Hoya in '97, who has competed at middleweight and was a very strong and very good light-middleweight, standing almost 5'11". (Whitaker was well, well past-prime by the time of the Trinidad fight)


    And this brings us to the Vasquez fight.

    In 1995, Whitaker stepped up to the 154lbs limit to challenge Julio Cesar Vasquez for the WBA light-middleweight title.

    Vasquez had fought his whole career at light-middle, and had a quality record of 53-1 pre-Whitaker, including wins over future undisputed lightmiddle champion and top 5 p4p fighter Winky Wright, and Javier Castillejo.
    He ended up with too many losses on his record, but that was due to hanging on too long and fighting too high for him, at supermiddle.

    Whitaker, 5'6" natural 135lbs-er, won 118-110, 116-110, 118-107.


    Whitaker is always lauded for his skill and defence, but I think his remarkable strength and infighting against bigger men are equally important reasons why he is a true modern great.

    :bbb
     
  2. pryorgatti

    pryorgatti Active Member Full Member

    1,180
    2
    Nov 1, 2004
    I must say this a great post Pacfan
     
  3. pablokerr

    pablokerr Member Full Member

    100
    0
    Jan 31, 2007
    Pernell Is Right Up There In My Atg List
     
  4. EpsilonAxis

    EpsilonAxis HNIC Full Member

    6,491
    2
    Jul 24, 2004
    Whitaker was awesome at what he did.

    However, he did many, many times what I find so goddamn irritating that fighters do...he would turn his back to his opponent and run to the other side of the ring.

    He should have been penalized in MANY fights for that.
     
  5. Frankiej

    Frankiej Active Member Full Member

    714
    0
    Oct 14, 2008
    He was a very good fighter! Great defensive skills!
     
  6. EL-MATADOR

    EL-MATADOR Boxing Junkie Full Member

    12,760
    2
    Sep 25, 2008
    good post. i know everyone considers him an ATG but still underrated IMO
     
  7. nickfoxx

    nickfoxx On The Nod Full Member

    3,211
    1
    Jul 7, 2007
    im one of the biggest pea fans around but have you even watched this fight? i'm gonna guess no, because in my opinion it was not an impressive performance at all and there are many elements of this fight that i would call borderline SHADY
     
  8. SouthpawSlayer

    SouthpawSlayer Im coming for you Full Member

    16,351
    2
    Sep 6, 2008
  9. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

    27,199
    91
    Dec 26, 2007
    Let's hear 'em.

    When taken into context it was a very impressive win, but I agree Pea simply was not natural at this weight at all, and IMO didn't look great. Then again there aren't many LW's throughout history I'd take to step up to 154 and beat a powerhouse like Vasquez, which Pea clearly did, although I've heard the occasional complaint from guys like yourself and Seamus from the Classic Forum.
     
  10. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    If you read my thread-start, you will see that nowhere do I say the performance over Vasquez was special, or great, or magnificent. I purposefully did not do this as I have seen the fight and am well aware it was not a stellar performance - unlike the ones I mentioned (Haughen, Ramirez II, McGirt, Chavez etc).

    However, I say it was a significant and underrated win in terms of noting Sweet Pea's physical strength against larger opponents - the whole point of this thread.

    It was not a thrilling fight and P was not at his sparkling best, but for a guy his size to go up to lightmiddle and score a convincing win, in addition to the other fights where he was excellent against bigger men - these combine to make my point.

    Agreed?
     
  11. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,423
    1,461
    Sep 7, 2008
    didn't Vasquez drop Winky like....6 times?!!?!? or was that someone else???

    either way, Pea, awesome chin, awesome skills....tough and rugged fighter too. One of my top 5 GOAT. I'm sure I'm gonna' get flamed for that, but it's true, he's my 5th GOAT.
     
  12. The Phenom

    The Phenom Pretty Handsome Full Member

    4,237
    336
    Aug 30, 2008
    Greatest fighter of the 1990's.
     
  13. DINAMITA

    DINAMITA Guest

    People get shot down in flames all too often on this forum for rating fighters from nowadays as highly as others rate fighters they never saw fight. Pernell Whitaker would not quite make my top 5 OAT, but no way am I going to criticize you for your opinion here, Pernell is an ATG and good on you! :good
     
  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

    82,423
    1,461
    Sep 7, 2008
  15. Sweet Pea

    Sweet Pea Obsessed with Boxing banned

    27,199
    91
    Dec 26, 2007
    That was Vasquez. It was actually quite a fight, and if not for the KD's would've been quite close, but as it was they gave Vasquez the clear edge in the fight, and he more or less beat on Winky toward the latter end of it if I recall correctly. To be fair though, Winky was pretty green.