Pernell Whitaker above 135: Proof of Greatness

Watch the rematch with McGirt. It just makes you wonder how anyone could call him a runner. He beat up McGirt primarily from close range and dominated the fight, nearly stopping him in the latter rounds. Perhaps not a prime McGirt by that stage, but throughout the first half of the fight before Pea took over he looked every bit as good as in the first fight. Pea just had so many levels to his game. A truly great all around technician.

 

Monzon over Hagler??? I actually think all those guys should be in the same category.

Maybe 'Ali, Hagler, Duran' and 'De La Hoya, Pacman, Hearns' would be more appropriate for supposed 2ndtier fighters.

Sorry to but in. Just thought that ALL the guys you were mentioned were 'Elites'.

 

Ali and Duran are top tier fighters.

100%

 

I don't do rankings like that. I don't really like that kind of system to be honest. Too basic. I consider him just as skilled as any fighter listed above, easily.

As for McGirt, he was an exceptional fighter. He could box very fluidly in a technically sound manner as he showed in the bouts with Pea or he could box in an unorthodox, in and out, flashy manner. Very skilled technician, one of the best of the early 90's. I'd rank him alongside Oscar, Quartey, Tito, Mosley, etc at his best.

 

well first of all sweet pea and pacfan, you guys keep using the words "clearly" and "convincing" to describe pea's win and it was not a clear or convincing win at all, i think pea won, but he won the same way he won when he beat wilfredo rivera the first time, which is JUST BARELY

i scored the fight 113-112 for whitaker and if i'm not mistaken, vasquez had a couple pts deducted in that fight

which leads me to my main argument which is the downright shadiness of the whole fight in general (these will be the same points i made in the classic forum)... i re-watched the fight about a year ago and i became strongly persudaded that there was some underhanded business going on in this fight... first of all the scorecards are ridiculous... i could see it 114-111 or even 115-110 but not 118-110 and 118-107... vasquez did not win just 2 rounds in that fight... 2nd of all, something was seriously wrong with the compubox #s in that fight... they were completely fabricated as far as i can tell... 3rd, the point deduction(s) i can't remember if there was one or two, but there was a point in the fight where the ref (tony orlando i believe?), lou duva and pea were in the corner simultaneously, and the corner mic clearly captures orlando and duva saying that a point is about to be taken away from vasquez... as if it had been pre-planned... throw all this stuff in with the extreme one-sidedness of the hbo commentary and it became clear to me that as long as whitaker was able to last the full 12, he was going to get the decision NO MATTER WHAT... so that is my case... it's entirely circumstantial and you can shoot down any of the single points (the scorecards, the compubox #s, the commentary, the point deductions) but taken as a whole, my belief is that the fight was fishy... pea may not have been in on it, but lou duva, the ref, and the judges certainly were, and it was all supported by the commentary and the compubox #s which were just flabbergasting

let me qualify my statements by adding i was SUPER HIGH when i was re-watching it

 

Paranoia.

 

No doubt. Don't think for a 2nd I was lumping them in with the '2nd-tier' guys I suggested, though, upon re-reading it does look like I've put them all on the same line!!!

If I didn't think Ali and Duran were great then I wouldn't deserve to be on here.

My top 10 are (and I don't include fighters I haven't seen anything of)

1: SRR
2: Duran
3: Henry Armstrong
4: Eder Jofre
5: Sweet Pea
6: Ali
7: Sal Sanchez
8: Hagler
9: Ray Leonard (hate him, but can't deny his talent)
10: Roy Jones

Look, to be honest I can never make a comprehensive list, just a mix of skills/resume/times they fought. To be fair, there are huge cases for the likes of Ezzard Charles, Julio Cesar Chavez, Ricardo Lopez, Lennox Lewis, Ruben Olivares, all sorts of fighters, but I'm sticking with this list....for now!

I have the Vasquez fight very close....I think maybe when I put the deductions back on it was a draw. I definitely scored it close.

 

thank you for chrissake THANK YOU

 

To me, even though he lost, Whitaker's performance against Trinidad does heaps for his legacy in terms of proving intangibles like heart and will to win. Tito at the time was steamrolling through every welterweight he faced (and pretty much continued to do it all the way up to middleweight), and those that did survive, like DLH and Camacho, ran for their lives (especially Camacho - running becoming his raison d'etre in the latter half of his career).

Whitaker actually stood his ground and traded with Tito, and did so for 6 rounds with a broken jaw. His jaw was broken in the 6th round. The very next round Whitaker comes out and puts a beating on Trinidad with left hand powershots, and actually drops him (even though they didn't count it). Just so much heart to do that, it fills me with awe.

It's the Trinidad fight, more than any other fight, that validates for me that Whitaker could stand in there with the best lightweights of all time, and survive. Without that fight, there would always have been a question mark, becuase he always allowed his great skills to help mask his true grit.

As for the Vasquez fight, wasn't a great performance per se, but was still remarkable given how little he was. I felt the fight was quite close, but clear for Whitaker. With the point deductions I don't see how you could have it going Vasquez's way. Without them, perhaps a draw is arguable. The scorecards given by the judges were ridiculous. As for the ref telling Duva he'd take a point, I'm pretty sure that was to stop Duva bitching about the fouling going on by Vasquez. And if I recall correctly, he didn't say I'm going to take a point away simple as that, he said don't respond (when he fouls you) I'll take a point away (next time he fouls). Yeah, I'm adding in the subtext, but I think that's the meaning of the exchange between the ref and Duva.

 

Funny you put this up. I was thinking about Whitaker and how well he sliped punches. Good post btw

 

Great post SS, I actually had the bout with Tito even through 7 rounds, with Pea up 4-3, the bout being even by virtue of the knockdown in Tito's favor, though as you say they didn't feel that counting Pea's was neccessary. He was actually out-fighting and rough-housing Tito on the inside, causing Tito to fight on the move early on. Just says loads about his spirit, and the fact that he able to fare so well so far removed from his prime is just phenomenal.

 

We should never underrate Pernell occasional willingness to mix it up at times as he did against Roger Mayweather and Harold Brazier. What's interesting about the Brazier fight is that Pernell did'nt even go for the KO against him when it was there for the taking,it's almost as if he felt bad for Brazier and let him hang around to the final bell.