The 140 Pound Tournament - Choose the Combatants

Not if Duran and Robinson are in it, the sheer mention has bored me already.

 

Re: Duran's best win at 140? Off the top of my head, was it Mamby? If so, this qualifies to get him into an all-time tournament based on 'what could have been'? Ridiculous.

 

It's a tough one isn't it. Little doubt Duran would easily be in the top 5 there ever, if not 1. Whitaker similar. How do we best weed it out tho. We have to bear in mind future weight divisions and what we might come across as well.

 

Some of my favorites are Duran, Robinson, napoles etc. But I see MDWC's point, it would be good to have different debates about different fighters. It would be ground that we've already seen and covered.
Maybe a 32 man field and four extra fighters (the top seeds) getting a bye until the quarter finals(?)

 

Tons of champs over the years have fought over the weight non-title matches. It's just a payday for the champ while marking time for his next title defense. Duran had alot of over the weight matches which would be considered Junior welter, but he never actually competed in the division. Even when he vacated at 135 he went straight to 147 (knocking out junior welter Monroe Brooks along the way). For that reason, lets leave out the guys who did not compete with earnest. 140 is still strong enough to have a good tourney without the Robinsons and Durans.

Scartissue

 

Even though I mentioned the exclusion of Robinson and Duran, I am all for the inclusion of Jose Napoles. He was world rated at 140 for years before getting a title shot at 147. He competed dilligently at 140, and although he made his name at 147 he should definitely be added.

Scartissue

 

You should put Meldrick Taylor in the tournament.

 

Goodness yes.

 

1. Angott is a big big win over current lightweight champ

2 fights against ex-Welter champ Zivic (who was champ up until that year).

Servo was the future WW champ

Lelo was coming off fighting for the LW title.

Ghnouly beat Joyce a fight or 2 before SRR

2. Mayweather didn't fight the best at 140 but his dominance over the top guys he fought, YES top guys was special, hes proven other variables at other weights.

Chavez isn't on Whitakers level whether its from 135-heavyweight FFS watching their fight that is obvious.

Gatti at the time had wins over 3 140lb contenders and was WBC Champ, Corley was an ex-champ and lost his belt taking Judah to an SD.

Mitchell was past prime, but he was an ex-champ dominated. The fact Mayweather proved himself above the top 140lbers of his era is significant even if it wasnt at the 140lb limit. He offered to fight Hatton/Cotto at 140 in 2005 and they both declined, he later beat Hatton.

3. So what if Chavez wasn't prime, he was still top3 at the weight, and Delahoya completely dominated him

4. So fighters who started at lightweight or below are welterweights Completely anally retentive and showing a sheer lack of knowledge of how real boxing works when not on paper

5. Duran avenged the loss, and it had nothing to do with the weight limit, again anally retentive numbers games that ignores real boxing

6. You're ignoring who the best fighters who fought at 140. Quite often 140lb Titles were the booby prize for the fighters who weren't good enough to go upto Welterweight or fight the other greats who passed through the weight. This applies to Tyszu, Chavez and Hatton. Because Delahoya beats Tyszu, Whitaker whips Chavez and as seen Mayweather KTFO of Hatton

Your also ignoring the fact that fighters who have nothing to gain are going to go for the tin pot title that was the old 140lb division - ie Robinson/Napoles

 

It might be anal retentive, but there's something to be said for that, and it's surety.

Just to take an example, imagine Floyd went from 130 to 140 pounds. People like you would say he's near unbeatable at lightweight.

And guess what? More fans than not think he lost at 135 to Castillo, and not only that but he struggled in the rematch too and didn't look that flash in his other fights at the weight either.

So if you ask me now, I don't rate Floyd highly at 135 and it's because of what he DID AT THE WEIGHT.

Nothing like being tried and tested at the weight, that's the point I'm making here.

I don't think there is anything that bad in making assumptions about a fighter with limited time at a weight class if you have knowledge of their ability below and above that weight (usually their performance at the intermediate weight would correspond to what they did above and below the weight), but it's something, at least for the sake of this tournament, I'd rather not do. If others are all for it, then sure, add in the likes of Robinson and Whitaker and Duran. I think we should try and reach a consensus on the 32, and so everyone should put in their picks.

 

1. First off Castillo is an ATG Lightweight.

Most People had Castillo winning = people who haven't seen the fight and repeat what Mayweather 'haters' say, Castillo gave away the first 5 and Mayweather pulled out the championship rounds. Mayweather won wide in the rematch when he didnt have a broke hand, damaged shoulder and broke ribs.

If you don't think Mayweather looked flash against the big punching top rated Ndou, what looks flash exactly?

2. Just beating the 2 other top lightweights of the era in 3 fights

3. Interesting Henry Armstrong only had 12-13 fights at or below the 126lb limit, yet everyone is happy to include him in a 126lb tournament :deal Robinson had twice as many at 140 and Whitaker and Mayweather had the majority of their career 140 or below

 

That suits me alright!:good

 

To you perhaps. To me there are at least 50 I'd have above him and I have the list to prove it.

I don't believe that. Sure some of it is hate filled, but many felt he genuinely lost.

He won by a wide 3 points to me, and didn't look impressive doing it.

He did look good in that fight, I was thinking more the Sosa fight.

Which other two top lightweights?

Armstrong dethroned the best man at featherweight of his time. Whitaker, Floyd, Duran and Robinson did not beat the best at 140.

 

I know when I was going to run this tournament, I was going to stick to 16, and exclude a) fighters who were active at the weight (no Hatton), and b) fighters who didn't really stick there long enough to establish a body of work at the weight (no DLH or Whitaker, who had basically a handful of fights between them).

You could make a case for Duran, I suppose, and I certainly would have included Napoles, but I'd hesitate to include Robinson, Armstrong and most of the great lightweights who fought when it wasn't really an established division simply because they've already done quite well in other tornaments.

 

How does it actually work when its off then? Do you put the fights out, and whoever gets the most voted in each bout goes through to the next round? Or is it simply for each poster to see how they think the tourney would unfold, sort of on a fun basis?

Sorry im in the dark a little Drew.