This started off as an on-going argument between me and a friend for many years about who is the better fighter between Hopkins and Jones Jr. Not only head-to-head, but which one fought the better competition and who had the better career. To settle the argument once and for all I drew up a simple table: I took their 10 best opponents and awared points (out of 10) for quality going in, and points (out of 10) for overall performance in the fight, and multiplied them together. So a good performance against a top opponent merits more than one against a lesser opponent. If they fought anyone more than once I took the average pts totals of their combined fights (eg. Jones vs Tarver, Toney Vs McCallum etc) Finally, I tried to fair and objective (eg. I think the Reggie Johnson who fought Jones Jr was a better fighter than the one who fought Toney), so I awarded points accordingly. Here are the results (apologies, doesn't allow for tabbing. It's easier to read in table format): Hopkins Pavlik 8.5 x 9 = 76.5 Calzaghe 9.5 x 6 = 57 Wright 8 x 8 = 64 Tarver 8 x 9 = 72 Taylor (x2) 8 x 7.5 = 60 Eastman 7 x 8 = 56 De La Hoya 7.5 x 8 = 60 Trinidad 8.5 x 9 = 76.5 Glenn Johnson 7.5 x 8 = 60 Jones Jr 9 x 6 = 54 TOTAL 81.5 x 78.5 = 6400 Jones Jr Tarver (x3) 8.2 x 4.3 = 35.3 Glenn Johnson 8 x 4 = 32 Ruiz 8 x 8 = 64 Woods 7 x 8 = 56 Reggie Johnson 8.5 x 8 = 68 Hill 7.5 x 9 = 67.5 Griffin (x2) 7.8 x 8 = 62.4 McCallum 7 x 8 = 56 Toney 9 x 9 = 81 Hopkins 8.5 x 8 = 68 TOTAL 79.5 x 74.3 = 5906.8 Toney Holyfield 8 x 9 = 72 Jirov 8 x 9 = 72 Griffin (x2) 7 x 5.5 = 38.5 Jones Jr 9 x 6 = 54 Williams 7 x 8 = 56 Barkley 7 x 9 = 63 DeWitt 6.5 x 8 = 52 McCallum (x3) 7.8 x 7.7 = 60 Reggie Johnson 8 x 7 = 56 Nunn 9 x 8 = 72 TOTAL 77.3 x 77.2 = 5967.5 Calzaghe Hopkins 8.5 x 8 = 68 Kessler 8.5 x 9 = 76.5 Bika 7 x 7 = 49 Lacy 8 x 9 = 72 Mitchell 7 x 8 = 56 Brewer 7 x 8 = 56 Woodhall 6.5 x 8 = 52 Sheika 7 x 8 = 56 Reid 8 x 7 = 56 Eubank 8 x 8 = 64 TOTAL 75.5 x 80 = 6040 Analysis: Best overall performance is Jones Jr over Toney with score of 81 pts. Worst overall performance is Jones Jr vs G. Johnson with 32 pts. Hopkins fought the toughest competition with total coefficient of 81.5. Jones Jr in 2nd with 78.92. Toney 3rd with 77.33. Calzaghe last with 75.50. Hopkins has the best overall total vs his 10 best opponents with 6400 pts. Calzaghe is 2nd with 6040 pts. Toney 3rd with 5967.5 pts. Jones Jr trails with 5906.8 pts. The fights with Tarver and Johnson really putting a big dent in his overall score. re. Hopkins vs Jones Jr. Going into their 1993 fight Jones was the rising star and favourite which is why I rated him 9 and Hopkins 8.5 going into the fight. Conclusion: Hopkins is way ahead number 1 and deserves to be ranked above Jones Jr for his consistancy against superior opposition. Although Jones undoubtedly has the biggest single win and best performance, his crushing defeats and overall record leaves him way behind Hopkins .. and even trailing Calzaghe and Toney.
Hopkins ahead of Jones ?? Well I completly disagree ..Even though Jones was Ko ed twice Hopkins has 3 losses 2 to Jermain Taylor and one to Joe ..Head to head Jones beat Hopkins ..Lets also look at accomplishments ..Jones was middle lt heavy and heavy weight champ.Both men had win streaks that went over a decade Jones being the more dominant over much bigger men while Hopkins stayed put at middle ! Im sorry my friend not only is Jones more accomplished but head to head Jones has one up on the Executioner ..Now if Calzaghe ends up beating Jones this debate becomes tighter ! None the less great thread !:good
Hey Imperial1, you share the same view as my friend. I understand about going up and down the weights deserves credit etc.., but I tried looked at each fight on their own merits. I guess I don't penalize Hopkins as much for his defeats as i do Jones for his. After all they were pretty crushing, whereas Hopkins' losses were close.
what the ****? atsch so basically you just pulled the "weight" and "quality of opposition" numbers out of your ass? :-( come now...
Yeah that is pretty stupid how on Earth can you compare Jones moving up to heavy and beating the **** out of Ruiz to Hopkins taking on Wright who moved up in weight to fight him and who landed much more pouches in that fight because you gave the same amount of points for that. The whole thing is pretty stupid imo. Made for good reading though lol.
Going into the fight I would rate Calzaghe as 9 and Jones Jr no more than 7.5. A victory for Jones would be much bigger than one for Joe. I thought taking their 10 best opponents would give a good measure. We can discount certain fights as being irrelavant - eg B-Hop's debut.
That was a great performance, maybe I did underscore slightly. I was just impressed with his performance against Kessler, because Kessler posed him more problems. Lacy was just a beat-down job.
I can't be bothered to break this down but one example of how majorly this is flawed: Nunn 9 x 8 = 72 for Toney Ruiz 8 x 8 = 64 for Jones The fact that you gave them the same number for performence boggles the mind. Do you think its a better achompishment or performence for a middleweight to beat another MW, by stoppage after clearly losing the fight? or for a guy who started at JMW to go up to HW and clearly and dominantly beat a 225lb HW, who outweighed him by 30lbs?
This system doesn't work at all. If you think Calzaghe has a better resume than Jones Jr or Toney then you have been :rasta I agree Hopkins is no.1 though.