HELP! Me write my all-time pound-for-pound list! What's your opinion of these guys?

Napoles had a superb amateur career before turning professional, 114-1 apparently, and therefore had a lot to live up to. He did so with a superb professional career aswell - it ending with a record of 79 wins and 7 losses, with 55 knockouts.

In terms of his skillset, he was a smooth, silky fighter who could really box, shown as he comfortably outboxed guys like Emile Griffith. However, he also had power and was fairly durable aswell, which makes him a handful for anyone on a H2H basis. His let down was his tendency to cut however, 3 of his 7 defeats came from cuts, with his only other stoppage defeat after moving up to face middleweight king Carlos Monzon.

In terms of achievement, he was a 2 time welterweight champion, in a time when you had no alphabet belts, and the title was sought after. He also fought in a pretty tough period, with guys like Griffith, Luis Rodriguez & Curtis Cokes to contend with. He only fought across 2 divisions, but they were tough divisions, he done very well to win the Welterweight Title in the first place, and then regain it after losing it, and nobody can blame him for failing when stepping up to fight for the Middleweight Title, as the legendary Monzon stood in his way.

His first title reign was particularly long, he only made 3 defences before losing the title to Billy Backus - via cuts - however, he did win it off the tough Cokes, and defended against him in the rematch. He also beat Griffith comfortably, before battering a reasonable contender in Ernie Lopez.

He then lost his title to Backus on cuts, before regaining - on cuts himself as putting Backus down twice in the 8th. He had a reasonable 2nd title reign aswell, defending against solid contenders like Armando Muniz, Hedgemon Lewis and Roger Menetery. In terms of accolades, he was named fighter of the year by The Ring in '69, and is widely regarded as one of the top 7 welterweights of all-time.

As an overall P4P all-time rating, I would rank Napoles around 40-44.

What can you say about Holyfield, undisputed cruiserweight champion of the world, he moves up and becomes the undisputed heavyweight champion aswell. That is a fantastic achievement in itself.

His resume is very solid indeed. Wins over Dwight Qawi and Carlos De Leon in winning the undisputed cruiserweight crown, and and an impressive resume at heavyweight with victories over Riddick Bowe, Mike Tyson, Old George Foreman, James 'Buster' Douglas, an old Larry Holmes, and Michael Mooorer before running into a prime Lennox Lewis, and fighting on longer than he should have has hurt his record with recent defeats. He does also boast wins over solid contender level guys like Ray Mercer, Pinklon Thomas, Michael Dokes, Hasim Rahman and John Ruiz.

In terms of his skillset and H2H, he ranks pretty highly because he was just a good honest, all-round fighter. He could box or punch, packing reasonable power, always turned up in great shape and wore his heart on his sleeve, showing a very good chin and plenty of durability. His size could possibly hurt him in heavyweight hypothetical H2H match-ups, as he was always a pretty small heavy, however he would give anyone a good fight, no doubt.

As an all-time ranking, I think Holyfield more than deserves a place around 34-38.

Mayweather, in terms of achievement, has to rank highly. 6 titles in 5 different weights classes from 130-154 shows the guys pedegree. With his combination of speed, defensive prowless and ring IQ, he also ranks pretty highly H2H, however the further he goes up in weight the further he is likely to lose in these hypothetical match-ups, as he will probably struggle with the natural size difference, and his lack of power due to brittle hands. He does however manage to hurt guys, mainly through the amazing accuracy of his punches.

In terms of his resume, it's not bad, but really for a guy who's fought in 5 different weight classes, there's a host of names missing, Mosley, Hamed, Tszyu, Casamayor, guys like Cotto and Margarito of recent times, would of all improved his resume no end. He does however have solid wins over guys like Castillo, De La Hoya, Hatton, Judah and Corrales.

He's never really stuck around in a division long enough to be able to confidently assess a title reign, and in terms of accolades, he was widely regarded as the P4P #1 fighter upon his retirement, and has won the Ring Magazine's Fighter Of The Year twice, in '98 and '07. With 9 years between those awards, it shows the level he has maintained throughout his career, as does his '0' in his losses column.

As an all-time rating, I would place Mayweather around 35-39.

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Will do a bit on the others tomorrow.

 

If this is YOUR list, use YOUR own opinions on the fighters you mentioned, or it will be "My own and a few guys on a forum's" list

 

Well, at least the Top10 I have somewhere in a thread in the classic board. I deleted the excel file were I had them all written down though. I also used a tier-system instead of a list. Thought it was fairer.

Nah, Bob was the guy with the solarplexus punch.

 

A lot of it has already been covered, but I'll add my opinion on each.

First, the one I rate the highest, Kid Gavilan.

Gavilan is quickly becoming one of my favorite fighters. I think he is set inside the top 5 all-time Welterweights, and top 30 all-time (he usually just makes the top 25). Gavilan was a brilliant fighter. Versatile, fast hands, excellent technical skills, generally applied constant pressure on his foes, and although he wasn't much for power, Gavilan could bang fighters up very badly. He also had one of the very best chins in history, never stopped and was only put on the canvas 2 times in his career (Basilio and Williams). Ray Robinson said Gavilan gave him his toughest fights, and once The Kid reached his peak he was a nightmare of an opponent to fight, he didn't lose in a 3 year stretch in nearly 30 fights, and the majority of his losses came at the end of his career. His resume is excellent, Carmen Basilio, Ike Williams (twice), Billy Graham (3 times), Johnny Bratton (twice), Gil Turner, Beau Jack, Tommy Bell, Tony Janiro, Bobby Dykes, Rocky Castellani, Joe Miceli, Chico Vejar, Ralph "Tiger" Jones, etc.

Jose Napoles is also a top 5 Welterweight IMO, and would clearly make my top 40 all-time. Napoles in his prime was a complete fighter, his only real flaw was how easily he cut. He was supremelly skilled, had some of the best footwork ever, and was an explosive puncher. Supposedly he was even better at 135 and 140 than 147. He beat (a lot of them in dominant fashion) guys like Curtis Cokes, Emile Griffith (not at his best, but Emile Griffith nonetheless), Eddie Perkins, Ernie Lopez, Hedgemon Lewis, Billy Backus, Clyde Gray, Carlos Hernandez, Armando Muniz, LC Morgan, etc.

Evander Holyfield is without question top 50 all-time IMO, he would almost certainly make my top 40 if had a list that went back that far. Holyfield in his prime was an excellent ring general, crisp combination puncher, solid technical skills, etc. At Cruiserweight he was just a monster in his prime, even up to Heavyweight Evander always imposed his will on his opponents. Tyson, Bowe, Foreman, Holmes, Qawi, Buster Douglas, Moorer, Mercer, DeLeon, Rahman, Pinklon Thomas, Ruiz, Cooper, etc. Outstanding resume, problems are the upset loss to Moorer, his win over Bowe was clearly a closer fight than the two losses, and he continues to fight on for way, way too long. Still, he is a guaranteed top 50 or 40 all-time IMO.

Floyd Mayweather also would likely make my top 50 if I were to make a list. Titles in 5 divisions, undefeated, supremelly skilled and talented fighter, and although his resume isn't great, it's very good. I think 35 is pushing it, but he could crack the top 40 perhaps.

Alexis Arguello, an all-time favorite of mine. The greatest Jr Lightweight ever IMO (I would favor PBF to beat him, bu by resume Arguello takes it). I can't see him being farther back than 35, and I think top 30 is reasonable. Great style, my personal favorite puncher to watch. Featherweight champion with 4 defenses all by knockout and vacated the title, Jr Lightweight champion with 8 defenses and 7 by knockout and vacated the title, Lightweight champion with 4 defenses all by knockout an vacated the title, and past his best gave Pryor a hellacious battle and even after his comeback stopped a pretty good fighter in Billy Costello. Wins over Ruben Olivares, Alfredo Escalera, Jim Watt, Ray Mancini, Rolando Navarette, Bobby Chacon, Bazooka Limon, Cornelius Boza-Edwards, Jose Luis Ramirez, Jose Legra, Royal Kobayashi, Lionel Hernandez, Villamor Hernandez, Rubin Castillo, etc. Clearly top 35 all-time.

Salvador Sanchez was a fantastic fighter. I think he would just make my top 50 if I made a list, a sad statement as he showed the ability that could have allowed him to be far higher up. As it stands, wins over Gomez, Nelson, Danny Lopez, LaPorte, Patrick Ford, Rubin Castillo, etc combined with his overall ability is enough for top 50.

Benitez was a marvel at his best. Not much of a mover, but is upperbody movement was virtually unmatched. Beating a legit ATG in Antonio Cervantes for the Jr. Welterweight crown at age 17 is unreal, an astonishing achievement. He basically outclassed Duran (not at his best, but it's Duran), and beat Palomino, Maurice Hope, Bruce Curry, Randy Shields, Pete Ranzanny, etc. I don't think he would quite make top 50, but he shouldn't be too far off.

 

It has probably already been said but dont forget Napoles was essentially the uncrowned champ at 140 during the mid 60's.

He dominated Perkins after he just lost his titles by split decision and he had already stopped the guy who beat Perkins for the titles, Carlos Hernandez. He also beat a handful of others minor contenders at the time.

I think it is very important to carefully analyze a fighters non-title record. Often their better wins were there, especially back in the day.