Why is Sugar Ray Leonard ranked so much higher than Hagler all-time?

You think?

I haven't seen a great deal of Ketchel except the Johnson fight,but I really doubt a rough and tumble brawler like Stanley could brutally dismantle a masterful defensive fighter like Hopkins.Especially a defensive master with a granite chin to go with it.

A Ketchel win is a possiblity but a KO I find highly unlikely especially under modern conditions.

 

True, pretty hard to fathom he only has him 30 or so spots down from the norm

 

(My emphasis.)

This is ridiculous. In which fight, if ever in his professional career, has Hopkins punched wide? Even his left-hook to the body is thrown almost straight.

 

Possibly.

The rough and tough Mercado brought Hopkins out of his comfort zone, it is not unfathomable that a primed Ketchel would force Hopkins to duke it out.

lest we forget Ketchel could go at it for 20 rounds against top opposition.

Now obviously, my interpretation of how Ketchel fights is down to more on whats written about him rather that the limited footage available but his savagery in the ring cannot be ignored.

The rules of engagement havent changed as much people seem to think (fighting styles differ, obviously)

Just to reiterate, I am not saying he would obliterate Hop, moreso it being a distinct posibility

 

for any level headed individual that is...

 

Obviously you're not familiar with the works of Redrooster.He takes an inordinate amount of artistic license in creating the works of fiction he delivers to us.

Just wait till he delivers his treatise on the abilities of Frank Fletcher .He'll almost have you believing he belongs in the HOF even with multiple losses to such..ahem...quality as Scypion,Braxton and Parker all in less than 30 fights.Yet he'll still passionately argue against Leonard's all time standing because he had less than 40 fights,even though he beat Hearns,Duran,Benitez,and Hagler and still almost have you agreeing with him.

Such is Redroosters genius.

 

Hm, that wasn´t prime Hopkins against Mercado and it was in Mercado´s hometown some thousand feet above the sea - thinner air, problems to breathe if you are not used to it. And even after beeing knocked down 3 times he got a draw against Segundo. And we know how the rematch played out.
Ketchel was a great fighter but I think he would be too crude for B-Hop. He could make Hopkins gunshy I think but that´s the only way I can see him winning.

 

lefties yes but without class, or credentials, or power

Hopkins would never get past Hagler's precision jab. Hopkin's head would bounce off violently in monotonous fashion. Marvin was so skilled he could deliver it with power from almost any position, tearing apart the skin off his face as I seen so often and swelling his eyes shut

How much of that you think Hopkins can take?

Hopkins, knowing he can't possibly win from the outside, tries to close the distance and tries to outmuscle the legendary Hagler as he attempted with Jones. But here too he fails.

Hagler has too much class and much too sophisticated for the limited hopkins who has low to average power. Hagler on the other hand took just a matter of minutes to take care of business against Minter, Hearns, and Lee-not the kind of all out, intense assaults that Hopkins could ever manage.

He can't win from the outside and can't cope on the inside. Nothing more that Hopkins can do except hang in there and hope for a miracle but hang in he does until either the ref or his corner mercifully stop the slaughter

 

"limited Hopkins"

See what I mean.Pure fantasy.

 

Hopkins as never been known for being a gifted fighter. He's considered to be a crafty fighter but with limited ability and not much power. He did his best in the Jones fight but even with a busted hand Jones outpointed him rather handily.

I know that had this fight never taken place, most people would choose X over Roy without hesitation but this is reality and Hopkins just doesnt possess the physical gifts of the elite.

great in his own time tho-excellent longevity :good

 

Hopkins improved immeasurably after this fight,it's just that Roy at that time was posessed of a demon speed and unorthodoxy that Hagler just never had.

All of this makes me believe that Hagler would have to dig extremely deep to overcome the very well-rounded Hopkins.

I agree that Hopkins doesn't have the pop to worry Marvin and I also agree that Hagler's southpaw jab was better than Bernards.Plus Hagler had a workrate that was way better than Hopkins more conservative,deliberate style,which is why I favour Hagler on points over Hop's in this match-up.

But the beat-down you're talking about is just wishful thinking based on absolutely zero evidence.

 

In what way did Hopkins improve? What would have he done differently to Jones the second time around that he didnt do the first time, go to the body?

he already did all that in the first fight and it didnt work. This is why I say Bernard for all his effort isnt going to make up for his inferior prowess. yes he looks great with those assigned to him as opponents but it is well known that he had the weakest competition any middleweight could ever hope for. he was just the best of a bad bunch. Good but never great.

 

Robbi, from looking at your past posts I expect much much better from you. Who cares if someone could beat the Hagler who fought Leonard. So what? I'd give a fair shot to Nunn, Tate and a few others to beat that version of Hagler. So what? The guy was done!

And Hopkins' speed close to Leonard's?? PULLLEEAAZEEEE !!!!:rofl

 

Dave. Rooster brings that out in all of us. Thought I'd let him know that Hagler version wouldn't stand a chance against Hopkins. And I stand by a stoppage due to accumulation is also highly possible. I'm not saying Hopkins knocks him out, as that is a stupid call. But down the stretch, Hopkins has the durability and tools required to bust Hagler up very bad.

I did state at the end of the post I'd take Hopkins to win prime v prime.


And regarding speed, Hopkins' speed isn't a million miles away from Leonard's. I was actually shocked at how quick his flurries were against Pavlik at 43 years old up at 170lbs. Blurring.