Was Holyfield vs Bowe I an example of ...

I agree.....

I'm not one to say that a good big man always beats a good small man but this was clearly a case of it. Evander's inability to overcome Riddicks size and strength was a major factor although I should add much of it had to with Riddicks ability

 

it didnt hurt bowe that holy didnt have the fire power to dent him either ..

 

I also agree, and I think Bowe Holy I would be the result for poor old Evander versus many 'natural' gifted heavies...

If your opponent is talented and determined, but has the natural frame and musculature of a heavy (but you are not) then you are bound to be pushing **** uphill. It is a measure of Evan Fields determination coupled with some unmotivated opposition that lead to some of his success, IMO.

His signature wins (Dokes, Bowe II, Tyson I, Lewis II (?)) required a huge amount of drive, a very well thought out gameplan, bags of heart AND an opponent who was a bit off - and even then they were close calls).

 

I think "too small" is an oversimplification. He was smaller, and he didn't really have the punch or stamina(as a heavyweight) to break down Bowe in a slugfest. Holyfield had great 15-round stamina in his cruiserweight days, but after gaining all that body-builder-like and possibly steroid-induced muscle to get up past 205, he never had that kind of endurance again. He also didn't have quite enough pop to really be a monstrous threat at heavyweight.

In other words, Holyfield's combination of a lack of top size, power and stamina at heavyweight led to his failure to prevail against Bowe in a slugfest, not just the first one. A small man with more long-term endurance and a bigger punch could have outslugged Bowe, in my opinion.

 

Tyson would outslug Bowe fairly easily. Frazier and Dempsey could of as well.

 

I was worried about that fight for Holy going in ,because I had just watched Holyfield on Arsenio Hall a few weeks before the fight and bragging that he would stop Bowe in 6. Now ...I don't know about you guys...but it shocked me how overconfident bordering on arragants Evander was...it put up red flag with me right away and made think about what kind of time he put in the gym. It was so out of charactor to see Holy act that way before a fight because he wasn't the type of fighter to brag before fights. I soon learned right after that , that Bowe was his sparring partner yrs before and that Holy usually controlled Bowe during sparring sessions.The rest was history and it was evident that Holy totally miscalculated Bowe from the outset and that even Duva,Benten and others in Holy's camp had problems getting him into the gym for that fight. I still feel that if Holy prepared properly for that fight ...he would have took care of Bowe in a fight for the ages.

 

holyfields game plan of hit and move went out the window as soon as he got tagged..then it became a fight that suited the bigger, brawling, infighting style of bowe as vandrs heart and stubborness drew him into a brawl ....one of the finest h/w fights you will ever see..in fact, as a trilogy, pretty hard to beat...

 

I'm not so sure that I would consider Evander Holyfield underpowered. He did manage to hurt George Foreman badly on a few occasions during their fight, and he dropped and seriously hurt Riddick Bowe in their third fight. I wouldn't consider Evander a great puncher, but I think he hit harder than alot of heavyweights.

 

No, actually, watch again- Holyfield is dead tired in the late rounds of most of these fights, although his heart sometimes masks it. For example, watch late in the 12th round against Foreman- Holyfield is heaving for breath at times and at one point late in the round he grabs hold of Foreman and refuses to let go for several seconds despite the ref's repeated attempts to separate them(not an exaggeration- watch the film). This is a far cry from the Holyfield who fought an action-packed 15 rounds without slowing down against Qawi. Holyfield still had GOOD stamina in his early heavyweight fights, but he definitely no longer had GREAT stamina. It was better than your average contender's, but clearly worse than someone like Jeffries, Marciano or Frazier's, or even Ali or Holmes'.

Nothing wrong with his conditioning in that he had trained hard like he always did, but again, when you gain 20 pounds of muscle mass, it weighs down on you. Why do you think the greatest long-distance endurance fighters, the guys who could fight an unusually fast pace for 15 rounds without taking a break(Marciano, Armstrong, Greb, Frazier), were all of the lighter-and-wirier as opposed to bulky-muscular variety? Holyfield used to be able to fight like that, when he was built more like those guys, but the added muscle mass was a hindrance to his endurance and it was never the way it had been against Qawi again.

Bowe wasn't what you'd call a monstrous puncher, but he was only a tier or so below that level, definitely more of a power puncher than Holyfield. Moreover, this is a little beside the point- it wasn't about Bowe and Holyfield's respective punching power, but whether a smaller guy who had more power than Holyfield could have outslugged Bowe. Holyfield had Bowe hurt badly at least once or twice and had him down and nearly out in the third fight, so I don't think the prospects of such an idea are too bad.

Both of those guys, Marciano, and possibly someone like a Tom Sharkey or Langford.

 

I do think the extra 10 pounds he stuck on after Bowe I directly improved his power, which came as a nasty surprise to Bowe in their other two fights. Personally I've always felt that the '93 Holyfield of Bowe II was his peak as a heavyweight.

 

This is an interesting thread.

I'm going on memory here, so please forgive any mistakes...

Holy initially weighed 202 for his heavyweight debut, and won the title at 208.
He pretty much stayed at 208 except for the Bowe fight, where he was 205. I remember it being said that Holyfield came in slightly lighter in an effort to outspeed Bowe.
The plan fell to pieces when Holyfield neglected the gameplan and brawled. As with everyone else, I noticed Evander had a serious problem putting the hurt on Bowe, who basically ground Holyfield down.
Basically, the difference in power was the big decider in the fight.

On the face of it, one could logically assume a good big man just beat a good little man. Had they never fought again, I would have continued to believe that.

However, in the rematch Evander had Bowe hurt on several occasions. In that fight Holyfield weighed 214. That's an additional 9 lbs of muscle, but should only 9 lbs. have made that big a difference to Evander's ability to hurt Bowe? (Who incidentally was 11 lbs. heavier himself)
I'm not so sure...

I'm not saying that size had nothing to do with the result in Bowe-Holy 1, but I tend to think other factors, in addition to the size issue, led to Evander's eventual downfall here. Maybe he slightly overtrained to come in lighter than normal?

Holyfield was always a very chiseled athlete who carried minimal bodyfat. In a fast-paced action bout like their first fight, he was probably burning muscle for energy as opposed to bodyfat. That would have a big impact on stamina and overall recovery.