Frazier in Marciano's position

I dont think they are similar enough to make that kind of comparison but that aside Marciano had a number of advantages.

I think that he did have a clear edge in chin and power, and as others have said he was more of a two handed fighter.

He was also less predictable than Frazier making better use of feints.

 

True. But FOTC was such a landmark in several aspects, so it's really hard to compare to anything Marciano did. It's not difficult to see the most dedicated pro become a bit complacent after such a victory. It also took a lot out of him physically.

 

I do!

 

All I am saying is that when you put a short term champion in a weaker era to see if he can extend his title reign, the first question should always be:

How long can he keep bringing his A game?

 

I agree. But even though Frazier didn't have a long reign he never produced a really bad perfomance either. Foreman would probably always be his cryptonite and his losses against Ali was by no means embarassing, quite the opposite.

As much as I like Walcott, Charles and Moore I have a very, very hard time seeing them beating Frazier. They wouldn't be able to either keep him off or keep away from him for 15 rds IMO.

 

I do think that Frazier would be a bit worse for them stylisticaly than Marciano.

 

Yes. At HW I see Frazier as the singularily worst match-up for boxers without a huge punch. Marciano is not very far behind, though.

 

You realize that Marciano defense video wasnt saying he has amazing defense, it was to show that he had some sort of defense, he wasnt just a brawler..

Fraziers defense was better, and a specific video didnt have to be made to say "his defense isnt bad for a swarmer".

I also dont see where a few of you see this definite edge in one punch power to Marciano..I could give him chin, and two handed attack, although Ill go out and ay Frazier WAS NOT a "one handed fighter"

 

Fraizer always had the same bob and weave patten, Ali, and to a extant Foreman was able to time Fraizer's up and down, side to side pattern, Ali could have been robbed of a 2nd round ko vs Fraizer in bout II.
Charles, Walcott, and Moore made the claim that Marciano's weaving thown them off. Charles said that Marciano feits with his feet, and he feits with his fist, You move out of the way of a right hook, and you get nail with the left.
Fraizer hardly if ever relie on feits imo.

 

While they both have high KO percentages, most of Fraziers stopage wins over ranked oponents were TKOs while Marciano just knocked them dead.

This makes me inclined to think that Marciano hit harder.

 

Marciano knocked Walcott and Layne out with one punch and left them cold on the canvas. Matthews suffered the same fate after two left hooks and vingo was destroyed... in '53 he became more of a clubbing/swarmer fighter. From there on, his power was comparable to Frazier's, but before that, he had genuine one-punch knockout power that Frazier didn't have.

 

Presuming Frazier must follow Marciano's career pattern, he loses four years to military service and begins his serious pro career at 25. He is actually older when he fights for the championship than he was when he first lost to Foreman. Two of toughest opponents, Charles and Moore, are faced when he is 31 and 32.

I would say that one would always expect an all time great to sweep his competition, which, generally, after all, is not made up of all-time great fighters. It doesn't really work that way though. If you didn't know what happened historically, would you have expected Lewis to get ko'd by McCall and Rahman? Louis by Schmeling? Liston to lose to Marshall? Johnson to lose to Hart? Tyson to be flattened by Douglas? Wlad Klitschko to be ko'd by Brewster? Vitali Klitschko to lose somehow to Byrd? Marciano and Frazier are two of the very few who were not upended by inferior opposition, a result perhaps tracable to the consistency of their swarming styles. Frazier lost only to Ali and Foreman, but other than Ali, the men he defeated were not, in my judgement, as good as Marciano's best opponents, and I think an upset from among the likes of Walcott, Charles, or Moore, or a sleeper like Louis or Layne, is somewhere between possilbe and probable.