Why didnt Wills fight Greb,Tunney,Gibbons,Godfrey?

When was Wills under an obligation to fight any of them. Anyway, do you have any quote from Wills on Tunney, Greb, Gibbons, or Godfrey, or for that matter Dempsey, such as this one from Dempsey on Wills:

Time Magazine 1-7-1924

"All this talk that I'm afraid to fight Harry Wills is getting on my nerves. Let me get in the ring with Harry and I'll win in a round or two."

It is amazing to me that Dempsey's supporters quote this embarressing bragging in order to prove that Dempsey "was not afraid of Wills" when he never in fact got into the ring with the man.

 

Well he did sign articles to fight him twice.

Some of his critics try to pretend that this didnt happen.

No Wills wasnt obliged to fight the No2 challenger but he sure as hell didnt want to and that imples that the length of his tenure as No1 contender might be an artefact of his unwillingnes to fight other top contenders.

You can reiterate that he was not obliged to do this but Tommy Gibbons certainly put his No2 ranking on the line against some tough customers over this pereiod.

 

The papers say an older Wills did not want to fight Tunney. Godfrey's manager made 8 offers over a span of years to fight Wills. Not sure about Greb or Gibbions.

 

Its easy to sign articles for a fight you know your never going to have to participate in...

 

I'm not desputing your statement, but do we know for a fact that Dempsey's signing to fight Wills was nothing more than a media stunt?

 

That is an extroardinary statment.

How could Dempsey know that:

A. The New York State Athletic comission would refuse to sanction a bout.

or

B. His cheque would bounce after another offer.

It seems to me that while previous white champions simply said "no and never" Dempsey was at least prepared to consider it. Perhaps he even went a bit beyond the call of duty to make it happen.

 

Kevin Smith posted a few years back that it was only that and in fact there was an escape clause that Dempsey's lawyer had to sign for it to be an "official" signing.

My take--Indiana was the stronghold of the Ku Klux Klan in the northern part of the United States in the 1920's. It might or might not be an exaggeration to say they called the tune on racial matters in Indiana, but there was no doubt they had a great deal of political influence. Why try to put on a fight in a state in which the governor and the legislature will immediately get up in arms at the Klan's urging? It makes you wonder.

Dempsey actually gave up his license in New York State rather than fight Wills in that state.

 

This does sound rather convincing now that you've provided some of the history. Giving up a boxing license in a major media venue such as New York, suggests going through great lengths to avoid a challenge, as does designing a contract with an escape clause.

Frankly, it doesn't seem to me like the appologists have much to work with. The writing on the wall is pretty clear.

 

Wills would have made money with Dempsey win or lose but the other guys would have not brought in that type of dough

 

The fight was signed for Indiana, not New York. New York State suspended Dempsey's license when he refused to sign to fight Wills in that state.

There is no doubt Wills got the run around. TIME MAGAZINE 4-7-1924:

"Tex Rickard--'Wills agrees to fight any heavyweight I select leading up to a meeting with Dempsey.' Wills was expected to meet Firpo. If Firpo retires, Wills would fight Spalla. If Wills wins, Rickard will let him have at Dempsey in September."

Now I personally don't see how you can criticize Wills when Rickard quotes him as being willing to fight "any heavyweight I select" in order to get that long-awaited shot at Dempsey. Of course, Wills did fight and defeat Firpo and the result? TIME MAGAZINE 7-27-1925:

"Jack Dempsey reached an agreement to fight whomever Tex Rickard should select--one bout this year, one next. His first opponent will be Gene Tunney, George Godfrey, or Jack Renault. Then, if not defeated, he will face Harry Wills."

What the hell is this? Wills fights and wins Rickard's elimination and so falls behind three other guys for a shot. Come on. There is really nothing to debate here. Wills got the shaft. Anyone can see that. The only real question is whether this is all Rickard's doing or is Rickard running into a stone wall when he tries to get Dempsey into the ring with Wills.

 

I think that most of this post is simply wrong-headed.

As the quote from Tex Rickard taken from TIME MAGAZINE indicates, Wills was willing to fight any man Rickard selected in order to get to Dempsey. Rickard selected Firpo.

Who were these tough men that Gibbons was fighting? Carpentier? He was over the hill and losing to almost everyone by 1924. Norfolk? This is better. He was a rated lightheavy, but Wills had in fact risked his #1 rating fighting Norfolk and had blown him away. And Wills was not ducking the top contenders in 1924 and 1925. He fought Firpo in 1924. My guess is that Firpo would have been the #2 contender behind Wills when they fought. That loss and another one to Weinert dropped him to #7 by the end of the year. In 1925 Wills fought Weinert, the #3 contender in the 1924 RING MAGAZINE ratings.

 

Well, that's really simple:


They never fought.


Actions speak louder than words ... or contracts. Rickard was a smart manager who wasn't going to risk his money cow. He's like an old school Rock Newman, perhaps without the punk attitude, but certainly with the same amount of greed and if that means disgracing the title, then so be it.







This thread is kind of funny, though. Now, instead of Dempsey, the champion, having an "obligation" to fight the seven-years established #1, that #1 contender's status is being doubted and whether he "proved" himself.