Id like to see him in some unifications. The problem with the lower weights is there is little interest, also the talent pool is shallow. Calderon has the skill but if he secures the matches or even has enough time to secure enough quality matches to be an atg remains to be seen.
yep, pretty much.....i mean look at guys like Tyson, didn't reign long, and he didn't really beat any prime great fighters but (outside of maybe Spinks), but people still rate him very high based off of how he got his opposition out of there, his talent and abilities in his prime were very obvious and can't be denied, same with Lopez, he never really had much of a resume as far as great fighters goes, but his overall abilities can't be denied but heres a question....i know JMM is still an active fighter but, who would you rank higher btwn. Marquez and Lopez? 1 has a tremondous record and always looked great for the most part, but is lacking a realy solid ATG resume while the others record ain't tremondous but is very good, but also has been agaisnt names that are befitting of an ATG, although he lost to some them, and he also has very similar talents and abilities so which one would you rank higher? but back to the question....it's the overall ablities combined with his reign/accomplishments
No! This guy doesn't win fights impresively . . . considering there are very few notable names in his resume . . . he win fights by winning rounds and then staying out of danger by running. ATG ??? And it's a big insult to even mention his name alongside Lopez'. Ricardo Lopez 51 (38 KOs) - 0 - 0 Ivan Calderon 32 (6 KOs) - 0 - 0 :-(
let's say calderon maintains his p4p 10 position for the next three years and beat edgar sosa via points, would you put him in the top 100 ATG? another question would be, do you penalize barney ross and willie pep's overall ATG ranking for their low KO ratio? the question here is how much KO ratio take into account in assessing the overall talent of a fighter? if calderon does beat sosa or gonzales and remain in the p4p top 10 for the next 3 years(which is very likely) you may rank lopez at 85th while calderon is barely in the 130th mark, would you now attribute the 45 places difference in the KO ratio of the two guys?
my contention here is lopez will most likely be ranked higher than calderon but they would be close in the rankings (assuming calderon beats either gonzales, sosa or solis and still be undefeated for the next three years) if that happens i see myself putting lopez in the 70-75 spot and calderon in the 85-90 spot in the same bracket as canto, perez, lynch and villa...i know a lot would disagree would me but calderon is on his way being the best 108 fighter of all-time
Asero please look up fighters like Hilario Zapata, Michael Carbajal, Yoko Gushiken, Myung-Woo Yuh, Humberto Gonzalez and especially Jung-Koo Chang before making a call like that. Calderon is a long, long long way off guys like Canto and Villa especially..I wouldnt have him near Lynch either. Ill admit beating Sosa AND Solis would have him right up there on resume..but I dont think he is on the other greats H2H level..not from what Ive seen.
@ question 1...1st off, i've said b4 i dont believe in these "top 10 ATGs" or "top 100 ATGs".. to me, you have the consensus GOAT which is SRR (or atleat untill some1 proves surpasses him), then you have other ATGs, cuzz to me, saying he's "the 86th greatest fighter of all time" just sounds ridiculous, hell so does saying he's the 5th or 6th best, to me it's just THE greatest and other All Time Greats, because when you're talking about some of the greatest fighters to ever step in the ring, its far too complicated and marginal to even rank one above the other in my book, it's not the same as saying Mosley is the 5th best fighter in the sport right now, and even that gets complicated and controversial, so the whole idea of ranking ATG's is just stupid to me to be honest so to me, your question reads, "would he then be an ATG?", and yeah, i'd have to say he would be @ question 2.....when did i ever mention anyting about KO percentages? or even power for that matter?, also like i said b4 i dont rank ATG's...what i said b4 is basicallly, as of March 13th, 2009, Ivan Calderon is not one of the greatest fighters i've ever seen, and he doesn't have one of the greatest resumes i've ever seen, but i never said he can't become one, which i why i didn't vote yes or no on your poll @ question 3......it doesn't really matter that much if you can overcome it, i meann...when you look at fighters like Robinson, he's pretty much considered being the Greatest due to the fact that he had it all, but if you make up for that lack of power in other areas, then that in itself is just as impressive ain't it? and i think all i said pretty much answers how i feel about your last question, but if theres 1 thing i'd tell you it would be don't put so much thought into ranking ATG's, but yes, Calderon is one of the few greats in the sport right now, but to me, he's no ATG, or atleast he isn't yet
what im trying to say here is there is a very very big chance that calderon would beat fellow champ and remain undefeated for the next three years. if he does it, i say he would be in the same level or a notch below as villa, canto, perez and lopez...
Taking into account the fighters he has beaten, or will beat in your scenario, how he has beaten them and how good he appears overall on film I dont think I could count him near those guys to be honest...I dont see myself ever doing it. For a guy like Calderon though...stepping up further and winning a title against a solid flyweight champion would mean a lot in my eyes. That might get him into the range you are talking about. If you were to add that fact he truly cleaned out lightfly.
does the moving up to 108 mean very little to you? he is a natural 105 guy. i must admit he lacks impact and drama in his wins but he can do well in h2h match up
No mate it means something...he just hasnt beat very good fighters there yet. The best name he has is a very faded Dieppa. He struggled I thought with Cazares and I dont rate Hugo that much, he is a pretty straight up fighter. If he does fight that Colombian dude and beats Sosa and Solis then thats pretty good..but not Canto or Villa good.
villa lost to mclarnin in his prime. i just feel that calderon could equalize the resume of lopez but his impact for the game is what would hurt him. he is forgettable.
Jimmy is one of the greatest fighters ever, top 50 alltime easily and generally underrated..No shame losing to him, especially if you consider that Pancho may have been in a pretty bad way from the infection that lead to his death like 2 weeks later. Lopez's resume is not that strong anyway..so its not outside the realm of possibility that Ivan could match or surpass it with the right wins. But he is a clear level below Lopez in terms of ability and in the ring dominance if you ask me.