Jack Dempsey v Bob Fitzsimmons?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Mar 30, 2009.


  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    This one's been tugging at me a bit.

    Fitz is looking for a very hard punch in a trap. He wants to bring his man onto a murderous shot and stop him with it or right after it. He can soak up some violence to do this and if he catches his man right, his man will go.

    On the other hand, we have Jack. Jack wants to use top class footwork to deliver very short hard punches that hurt his man so he can finish him.

    It seems these styles create the type of collision course where you just can't be sure what is going to come out the other side. Two things. If Fitz had Bear's chin I'd have no hesitation in picking him over Jack. He'd get him eventually after soaking up some murder. But Fitz's punch resistance, although apparently good, wasn't quite in this league. Secondly, if the referee wasn't forcing his man back to the corner after a KD i'd lean heavily towards Jack. Chances are Fitz is going to get hurt before he can land the telling blow and have to recover - the canvas is only a safe place if you are protected when you rise.

    So let's do it over 10 with a neutral corner rule in place. Who you got and why?
     
  2. dpw417

    dpw417 Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I'm by no means an expert on either of these guys (maybe Ted Spoon will chime in)...but going what I've seen on film, I'd take Dempsey by 6th round knockout.
    You are definely right by saying that Fitz sets his traps and explodes forward, putting his entire body weight into the shots. Dempsey is also a big proponent of this but had a better, more fluid technique, with much more punching variation...and Dempsey also appears to be much better at attacking on angles. If Corbett had Fitz down (around the 6/7th round I think) If Dempsey has him hurt, he'll finish him...I don't think Fitz would have the ability to get away from him. with his wide stance it would be difficult to retreat.
    I'll say this though, I have more overall consideration lately for Fitz as a great fighter, and pioneer of offensive technique.
     
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  3. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member

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    Dempsey inside 7 rounds but Fitz had the ability to drop him along the way.Jack was quicker on his feet and more versatile in his assault,Fitz would be waiting for openings and Dempsey would be exploding.
     
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  4. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. Full Member

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    I take Dempsey at his best, but it would not be a sure thing.

    I'd take Fitz slightly past or past his prime vs a slightly past his prime Dempsey or past his prime Dempsey.

    The historians and boxing people of the time felt Fitz hit harder than Dempsey.
     
  5. pugilist_boyd

    pugilist_boyd BUSTED UP PUG Full Member

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    dempsey would overwelm fitz by massive ko fitz would land his shots maybe even drop jack but jack would overwelm robert and beat him much,much faster than jeffries did with his better boxing skills that he had (in his short prime) say 1920
     
  6. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I doubt Fitzsimmons would get a chance to land a hard enough punch to KO Jack before he got KO'd himself. He might score a knock-down, but I don't think he'd close the show. No way to be sure, though. If Jack got caught coming in with Fitz' best punch he'd be in pretty horrible shape, if not out cold.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    Looking at Fitzsimmons record against come forward fighters like Sharkey.

    And the fact that Dempsey ocasionaly got caught coming in eg Gunboat Smith Luis Firpo.

    I think that a Fitzsimmons win is not out of the question.

    I would pick Dempsey to win but I think he would have to dodge a bullet to do it.

    If Dempsey wins expect him to apologise for loosing in his dressing room after the fight.
     
  8. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    What a war, Dempsey would kept timed coming in methinks, but I wouldn't be surprised if Dempsey got his punches off first. Fitzsimmons was very tough but Dempsey hit like a mule.

    Gut instinct; Dempsey via K.O within five rounds (more to Dempsey's power than Fitzsimmon's toughness)
     
  9. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล

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    Though I'm sure the historians will let me know that Fitz faced harder punchers than Dempsey, but oh, well, that's my prediction.
     
  10. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Maybe harder, but not better.

    How many rounds do you guys feel Fitz needs to survive to score the KO?

    Let's say I could offer you a weird guarnatee that Fitz would not be KO'd in the first 9 rounds - would that be enough time for him to land the perfect shot?
     
  11. Holmes' Jab

    Holmes' Jab Master Jabber Full Member

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  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol:
     
  13. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    The perfect shot could come at any time.

    Dempseys principal weakness as a fighter is that a clever puncher could time him coming forward and scramble his brains. Whether or not he survived this he would be in trouble and the fight would be wide open.

    Smith had him out on his feet.

    Brennan had him out on his feet acording to Jacks own testimony.

    Firpo had him out on his feet.

    Dempseys recuperative poweres got him out of trouble on the above ocasions but it Fitzsimmons (or Langford or Louis for that matter) had him in that situation you have to consider that he might close the deal.
     
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Janitor -

    I agree with most of this. My point is, in a 4 round fight Dempsey is a heavier favourite than a ten round fight - the more time the murderous counter-puncher has to land the big shot the more likely he is to win.

    Theoretically, how long do you think Fitz would have to be allowed to last to tip over into being favourite? Like I say, if he had Baer's chin, wouldn't that be enough to make him favourite?
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member

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    It might well be that one fighter takes the other out in the first six rounds rendering the duration irrelevant.

    I rather suspect that this is the most likley outcome.

    I think that if it gets past eight rounds into adrawn out fight eg Dempsey Gibbons, Dempsey Bennan then the pendulum swings towards Fitzsimmons though Dempsey will still be dangerous late.