Is Kosta Tszyu the most overrated fighter on ESB?

I agree with you about him saying Chavez and Duran being overrated, but the guys you talk about in terms of current or former champions that Kostya beat is a facade. The man has Laporte, Roger Mayweather, Chavez, and Bramble on his resume. He fought a lot of guys who were not natural 140 lbers. Kostya is overrated by his fans.

 

Kostya is underrated if anything. And one guy mentions Kessler - that has to be a joke. Kessler has been underrated for most of his carreer - only now that Canadians, Brits, Germans and Australians know him does he get some dues. He apparently needs to spank a yank to convince some of the slowest yanks too.

 

First off.. there's no such thing as overrating Roberto Duran. It'd be easier to overrate Muhammad Ali before Roberto Duran. Secondly, yes.. Chavez is overrated.


As for Tszyu.. I feel he's one of the most overrated fighters on this board definitely, and I don't say that as a means of bringing him down.. he's a highly skilled fighter and also one of the greatest combinations of power and precision punching IMO, but aside from that he has some pretty average attributes, and top it off with the fact that he has a lot of stylistic disadvantages.. especially comparing him H2H with top level fighters.

 

The Phillips rematch didn't happen because of politics with IBF mandatory challengers, which turned out to be Ternon Millett who TKO'd Phillips before the fight could happen.

Following the loss, Tszyu had 9 fights leading up to the unification with Judah with 8 stoppage victories and then decaptiating Judah in the unification.

My perception on ESB is that Tszyu is well regarded, but no one is saying he's an ATG at anything other than 140 lbs. Which is a perfectly reasonable statement. In the majority of all time discussions Tszyu comes up short against Pryor at the weight, but compares favourbly against say an Oscar De La Hoya due to their performances at 140 against Miguel Angel Gonzalez.

Oscar's performance against MAG is regulalrly included in Ring magazines collection of Oscar's top 10 best career performances and while he controlled MAG masterfully with the jab in that fight, he barley made him blink.

Tszyu DESTROYED MAG the following year.

This is not to say that Tszyu automatically beats DLH at 140, but it's a litmus test than many use to gauge how a fight between them may have played out.

Personally I feel the Danny_Rand thread here is a reaction to people suggesting he may have been able to beat Floyd at the weight.

Well we'll never know - But just because people don't automatically share your and Danny's enthusiasm for Floyd doesn't mean the people saying Tszyu will win think that Kostya will defeat Ray Robinson at 147...

 

You know what? My bad. His win against Hatton was a good one even though many know 147 isn't Hatton's best weight, as Collazo proved. Although I have to give FMJ credit for that one. However, just to quiet the critics, he could have given Hatton a rematch at 140 to prove beyond a doubt he was the better fighter no matter at what weight.

 

Overate Tszyu?

For:
One of the best amateurs ever.
Reigned as king of the 140 pound division for ten years. Genuine unification fight by fight.
Beat comparative opponents like Mitchell, Gonzales, Judah more convincingly (and better versions) than Mayweather and De La Hoya. Gonzales said Tszyu hit harder than De La Hoya ... and he fought them back to back.

Against:
Didn't get the marque fights ... mosely, dlh, mayweather...to put the final stamp on his resume.
Lost to Phillips and didn't rematch.
Lost to Hatton in his last fight.

It's Tszyu's best performances that command respect. His demolitions of world champions like Rodriguez and Gonzales are for me, more impressive than his KO of Judah. Likewise his comeback fight against Mitchell after multiple surgeries to his shoulder and achilles.

But his inconsistency and what i consider arrogance in some fights hurts him too. He had the skill to outbox guys like Phillips and Hatton, instead chose to go head to head with them and play to their strengths to prove a point. Had a couple of other headscratching performances like Lopez and Urkal in which he suddenly looked one dimensional.

But it's his best fights that show, when he's on, he's one of the hardest hitting and skilled boxers in 140 history. Underated chin, never hurt to the body, brilliant bodypuncher (when he went there which was too infrequent) and arguably one of the best straight rights you'll find.

Not to mention I think his hook off the jab might even have been better than the straight right.

But he'll always polarise opinions. He won fights when people thought he was going to lose, then lost fights he was expected to win. I judge him on his best performances ... and those are as good as the greats you'll find around the weights. Further to that, during his prime ... guys like DLH and Mosely said Tszyu was the boxer they themselves enjoyed watching. I think that speaks enough.

 

Kostya was an outstanding fighter. Very skilled, accurate, excellent power and adapted well during fights.

What really made him what he was, however, was his outstanding timing. The only guy, off the top of my head, I can think of in the sport right now who had as good of timing as Kostya is Cotto.

That's what he used to set-up the Chicken Dance with Zab even after struggling in the first round.

 

He's overrated in my opinion. Deal with it.
The fact that I voiced my opinion and said that he lost to Castillo is comical? So I guess no one on ESB can have an opinion on fighters careers except you, right? And yours are 100% correct and indisputable, right?
He ducked Stevie Johnston and Antonio Margarito IMO. Oops, wait!! I voiced my opinion!! Is that o.k. with you?
Funny how you didn't care to discuss his victories over all-time greats like Gatti, Judah, or Baldomir, which I am sure in your book elevates him to the god-like status. Buh-bye!!:hi:

 

Kostya and his people I think felt that they did not need to sign a rematch clause if I'm not mistaken. They did not think Philips would be any trouble going in to that fight. Gonzalez is not even a litmus test when it comes to judging how a fight would go between Dlh and Kostya imo. Dlh totally outclassed gonzalez FIRST. Dlh has a bunch of top 10 good wins that fans like you and me remember without Ring mag mentioning Gonzalez as one of Dlh's best wins.

Losing to Philips is not a terrible loss to me...Phillips was a fine fighter regardless of his record don't get me wrong, but Phillips said after the fight he would give Kostya a rematch, and Kostya's people never came calling. It was the first time I thought that Kostya could dish it, but he couldn't take it. Kostya did prove me wrong in the Hurtado fight, but I would've rather seen him fight Phillips.

 

Don't make this about us, just stick to talking boxing. Anytime you talk about a fighter ducking another fighter, you better have facts, and not opinions on this matter. Whether you or I think he lost to Castillo means shite to me. Floyd rematched him...and won-again.

Discuss wins over Gatti, Judah or Baldy...for what...those are good wins in my book, nothing special. When fans like you start getting irritated because of the way fans talk about their favorite fighters, and post assinine posts, I jump all over those types of posts. Your post was assinine, and I'm given the chance by ESB to point that out, and squash lunacy. Whatchutalkin about Floyd for in a Kostya thread anyway? Deal with that chump!

 

Floyd didn't make anyone give up anything. Hatton called Floyd out because he felt that at 147 this time he would be stronger than Floyd who he saw as not a true ww. He called Floyd out remember?

Pac beating Hatton at 140 might be seen by some fans/critics of Floyd as a question mark, but Floyd beat Hatton first, and since then Hatton has not been exactly a world beater in his last couple of fights. Historians always remember this because it is a round table discussion with great minds. Anyone who thinks Hatton is Floyd's second best win needs to look at Floyd's resume a bit more because I hope they don't think Dlh is Floyd's best win.

 

Kostya had great vision for a fighter, and was very underrated as a pure boxer. I felt that he didn't get any of the super fights a guy with his talent deserved...which is not his fault. He stayed at 140 to reign, and he did.

 

And it's this reason than many people see him doing very well in head to head match ups against those marquee names that didn't happen.

I don't think that constitutes being "the most overrated fighter on ESB".

 

No disrespect to Kostya but I think Dlh would've destroyed him. Dlh had a chin, a jab, the height and reach advantage, and the biggest difference/advantage of the two is speed. I think Dlh takes Kostya out, and it could happen early if Kostya tries to walk in bombing.

 

You can nominate Floyd, Cotto, AM, Williams, Abraham, Pavlik, wait...aren't all of the top 10 boxers pfp called overrated Doom?