Top 5 H2H @

...yeah...dupas was great to watch...all that movement and speed. to me he aways looked like a smaller version of willie pastrano. his speed and movement kept him in there for a while in his title shot at old joe brown....but joe caught him and kayoed him in 8. as i recall it was an entertaining fight.


p.s. this thread is still a study in irrelevance.

 

sounds like my kinda fighter

 

Calzaghe is not unbeatable, but the idea that a fighter who lost to Drake Thadzi and was outboxed by Nunn for nine rounds easily beats Calzaghe is silly. Toney always looked amazing when he was at least as fast as his opponent. With Calzaghe's speed advantage and non - stop punching, Toney's counterpunching stlye not be effective.

 

"The idea that a fighter who lost to Drake Thadzi"

Think about it mate. You can make that statement about most of the great fighters of history.

EG:

Who would win between Roberto Duran and Floyd Mayweather? The idea that a fighter who lost to Kirkland Laing...

Who would win between Juan Manuel Marquez and Barry McGuigan? The idea that a fighter who lost to Chris John...

It doesn't work like that.


Also, being outboxed by Michael Nunn for 9 rounds (exaggeration) does not mean Toney wasn't a great fighter. Nunn was superb at his peak, easily as talented as Calzaghe - who was outboxed himself over the first half of the fight against Kessler, and Nunn is better than Kessler. And Toney stopped Nunn.


Calzaghe's style was made for Toney. Peak Toney was not the plodding slowcoach he was made out to be. Watch the first McCallum fight. The fight is fought at a very fast pace, and Toney's underrated footwork is in evidence throughout.

If Calzaghe tried to back Toney up and beat him with volume the fight would resemble Toney v Jirov, except Toney at smw was stronger, more aggressive, and with higher output himself.

If Calzaghe tried to box at range, again he would find himself handily outboxed by a far more accurate, far more skilled opponent.

 

If Toney had better footwork, I'd have no problem favoring him over Calzaghe. As it is, both fighters have distinct advantages over the other (Calzaghe with his footspeed and workrate, Toney with his counter-punching), what leans this fight toward Calzaghe IMO is his unending stamina and the adaptability that comes with it.

 

Sounds absolutely fantastic. Did you watch that on the net or get given it? Very intriguing.

 

I recently received a shipment from Raging B(_)LL. Have been checking out footage of fighters I've seen less footage of recently to expand my knowledge.

Am now in the middle of watching Willie Pastrano's bout with Al Andrews to get a better idea of his skills in comparison to Dupas, as Albinored referred to above. Another fighter in that mold who used smooth as butter footwork and angles to maintain ring generalship and control of the opponent. Really beautiful fighters to watch, the ones who work angles efficiently.

 

ill give some of these guys a watch ill shoot an email to RB

i have Pastrano vs Johnson might watch that at some point

 

Do you not think Toney showed good footwork and stamina in the first McCallum fight for instance? I think he is perhaps a little hard done by in these comparisons.

 

I thought he showed adequate footwork, but that McCallum, being a stand-up boxer puncher who was pressing the fight more often than not, didn't really test it the way a mover would. Calzaghe's not a pure boxer or mover per se, but he does have fantastic footspeed which allows him to open and close the distance rapidly. Toney normally feasts on swarmers like Barkley, who lack the hand/footspeed and reflexes to avoid Toney's counters. Calzaghe has all of those things in spades. A guy like Barkley, who would swing and miss wide with slow, telegraphed shots, was tailor made for Toney to just pick off, as his lack of any speed made it easy for Toney to anticipate and counter each individual shot. With Calzaghe, he doesn't have those luxuries, none of them. Sure, he'll counter Calzaghe clean a few times when he comes in for his flurries, but do you really think he'd pick off each and every punch the way he did Barkley's telegraphed haymakers?

Another thing Barkley's lack of movement allowed Toney to do was get set in position for his counters, which is another thing Calzaghe's in and out movement and footspeed would deter him from doing.

I just see Calzaghe holding more advantages in this matchup, even if Toney does present Calzaghe stylistic issues as well. Don't get me wrong, I don't see it being one-sided in Calzaghe's favor, as I think Toney would more often than not be landing the cleaner, more solid blows. Ultimately I just think Calzaghe outworks and outmaneuvers Toney. And that's not even considering the option of Calzaghe opting to box behind the jab. It all comes down to adaptability and versatility, things Calzaghe had that Toney was a bit lacking in, IMO.

 

and Pea, you stand by your prediction that Trinidad beats Norris? Because I think Terry boxes his head off.

 

If Terry had the concentration and poise that some of the other boxers I'd favor over Tito had, then I'd give him a much better chance, even with his lack of durability. As it is, I think his mental lapses would see him caught by something huge at some point in the fight, probably earlier rather than later. Being a glass-jawed headcase is never a good thing against a steady bomber like Trinidad.

I'm not a big Norris believer, period. He's far from a great fighter, IMO.

 

Fair enough points. What bracket would you put him in? The Tommy Morrison bracket of talented but chinny? Or the Nigel Benn category of decent resume but not great?

Strange definitions of a category but I'm sure you'll grasp what I mean :good

 

I agree that Trinidad stops Norris,

 

Well of course it's feasible. I can see Tito catching Terry with the left hook during one of his lulls.

Does Chad Dawson remind anyone of Norris??????