Mike Tyson .Vs. Sonny Liston

Mike is more proven against 210lb + rated heavyweights than pretty much everyone pre 1980. But Liston's record against 210lb heavyweights is very good, and liston proved against world class 210lb talents like Williams dejohn and Valdez that he was more than capable of plowing through a big puncher.

 

I would like to make one keen observation even if its not credible....the one fighter Sonny Liston did face who fought with the same peek a boo style tyson had, and is a great fighter himself....He did not survive more than 2 rounds in 2 fights with Sonny Liston. Perhaps the Peek A Boo is not a good fit against Liston.

 

Why do people call liston slow? People need to get this impression of the mid 1960s liston of the ali fights out of there mind and study the 58-59 liston...you will see Liston is not slow.

He does not look slow to me at his peak

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQZkFNdPkdI
Liston is just 204lb for this fight. Lean Mean Trim. Wiped away # 9 rated Wayne Bethea in 1 round. Bethea was never stopped before or after this fight.

 

Some of the time I go for Liston, but today I think I'll agree with Fists of Fury (who made excellent points in his post).

I'm of the opinion that, on the front foot, no one can stop Liston's forward momentum; he'd be able to back up just about anybody. However, against an all-attacking Tyson, I think he'd opt not to move forward, and rely on boxing skill. This is not out of fear of Tyson, but rather a mistaken notion that it is in fact the right thing to do. I think Sonny would be utterly convinced of that.

I think Sonny would lose the fight because of wrong strategy, and he'll lose it how Fists of Fury described.

 

I think your overthinking sonny's mind. Sonny always would fight the way the other man would let him. If the other guy was calm and cautious slowly waiting to make his way in, sonny would just sit there and jab him to death and wait for him...however if the other man pursued liston, liston would come out guns blazing.... Tyson would come out roaring...and Liston would come out guns blazing... Tyson actually biggest weakness was inside fighting, while liston a extremley long armed man, was actually quite good on the inside.

 

I don't think I am. Let's not credit Liston with genius he did not possess. Against a relentless assailant, as how Tyson would appear to Liston, the tendency is to back right up. Liston is a 2-directional fighter while Tyson was 1. That's what made him more versatile. Sadly, this will also cost him the fight against Mike.

To be more specific: I think Liston's opening volley would be jab-jab. Once Tyson slips those, Sonny will look to re-establish distance so he can reset with the jab. It's just how I see it naturally happening. Liston will get his shots in of course, but without backing the other man up, he won't win.

 

I agree that he looks devastating against Bethea, but you gotta admit that Tyson is much faster, especially when he gets to showcase his ability against a Bethea-level opponent.

 

I don't think Liston is quick enough to beat Mikey. Tyson evades the jab and knocks him out. Out. Liston's enigma has seen him become slightly overrated for me, while the opposite is true for Tyson. I'm sick of this 'intimidate him to beat' thing for Tyson, its overplayed.

Mike W KO 5

 

i just think tyson on his best night... i just can't see anyone survive it, although i think foreman has the best chane in an offensive sense. i always think of tyson as frazier times 3. arguably pre-exile ali would be a better way to judge it. feasibly he can box tyson until he fades and then stop him, although tyson could withstand huge punishment . i feel ali was sturdier;clay more agile and snappy, although he was hardly sluggish in the 70's :good :rofl. note ali is no4 in my alltime list;tyson barely 70. h2h though,on hisbest day, arguably a tougher obstacle for alltime great hw's than even ali or holmes.

 

Must diagree fellow Mag.


Tyson was a phenominal fighter in his pomp, but never, NEVER put a total gold plated cap on it by beating the best he fought. He lost to the two absolute top drawer fighter he faced. For me Liston proved more that he could suceed through adversity (Williams, Machen best eg's) and demolished Patterson twice, OK he was more of a natural LHW rather like Spinks, but closer to his peak than Spinks was and a more proven, superior fighter at the weight than Spinks too. For me sheer will will be a factor in this fight and I think Tyson will blink first, especailly when faced ith a barrage unlike anything he came up against in his best, or close to, years.

 

I am inclined to think that Lioston would win.

It is not by any means a confident pick but here are my reasons:

Stylistic issue
Liston was a master at fighting on the retreat and using a fighters forward inertia against him. Perhaps the greatest ever in this regard.

The Patterson fights are absolutely relevant to this discussion because although Patterson was smaller and less durable than Tyson he still shouldnt have been put away like that based on either his other preformances, Listons other performances, or even their performances against common oponents.

It was not an anihilation based on size difference or qualatative difference it was a stylistic anihilation.

Zones
Althogh Tyson was one of if not the greatest offensive fighters of all time he was essentialy a mid range fighter who worked on the inside due to his shorter reach. He was never an infighter in the classical sense.

Liston was a good long range fighter, a good mid range fighter, and a good infighter. There was simply no zone where he couldnt control a fight. Tyson would have to keep the fight at his relativley specific optimum range to win the fight while Liston could adapt to whatever range he had to fight at. Above all Liston would have opportunities to puniosh Tyson both at long range and yes on the inside.

Liston was a smart ring general and if he cottoned on to this key limitation on Tysons part (not a given) he would know exactly how to exploit it.

The counter argument
There are some issues with my pick which I am prepared to gamble against.

Tyson was such a fast and explosive puncer and lethal finisher that you can never be sure how sombodys chin would hold up against him even if they have fought thunderous sluggers like Williams or even sombody like Foreman. You always have to alow for the "Tyson factor" in any hypothetical match involving him.

Tysons hand speed was a lot faster than Listons (as indeed was Pattersons) and if Listons fight plan dosnt come together as I am anticipating this will be a major issue.

It might also come down to intangibles (who wants it more/who is more intimidated) in which case it is never going to be a given where the first crack appears.

 

Good post, janitor. The stylistic and zone points are very well put and a few of the reasons I favour Liston. As you say Tyson poses a threat to anyone he steps in the ring with though, this is no cakewalk for either man.

 

Pinky did fight well, but do you think he fought as well or better than a peak Ali would? My point is FAR lesser fighters went 4 ropunds and more with Tyson and Ali's not exactly known for being taken out, let alone early.

 

A prime Tyson would stomp the **** out of Sonny liston. Liston was slow and only relied on his power, Tyson could go 12 rounds if he had to in the 80's. He had Speed & power & Lethal combinations. Tyson would ace him early too.

 

Someone knows their boxing then? :roll: