Larry Holmes is a wonderful fighter. Could he have got lost in the 70's shuffle?

He has wins and losses against the elite for sure, some great fights too, I can't see him going 3-0 against Ali/Frazier/Foreman but I can't see him going 0-3 either. I think he probably certainly beats Foreman, but picks up a loss to Ali/Frazier or both.

BTW Holmes used to clown Ali for having trouble with Frazier

 

At the risk of courting controvesy:

Much would depend on how his cards fell.

Frazier would have taken him apart more brutaly than he did Ali in the FOTC. Holmes would not have seen the final bell.

A prime Norton is obviously a problem.

Jimmy Young is nothing to laugh at either.

Ali?

I honestly think that Holmes could have given Ali fits. With the right fight plan this could be an Ali Norton style trilogy with Holmes not being denied against an older Ali.

Foreman is a toss up for my money but I have to respect the fact that Foreman himself clearly thought that Holmes was all wrong for him. If Holmes would have beaten Foreman then it would have been a verry narrow window for a title shot.

 

I say he beats Foreman and Frazier but loses to Ali.

I'd also imagine that he struggles with Norton. I can envision a scenario where he would probably would split fights with Norton possibly leaving room for a rubber match which I would likely favor him for.

 

Sorry for Holmes, he loses to all 4. (Foreman,Frazier,Ali,Norton)

 

A prime Holmes beats Foreman, IMO. Of course, if he still hadn't really been established (i e before the wins against Shavers and Norton) and met Foreman when Foreman was considered at his absolute most invincible, then the psycholoigcal edge might just have swung it in Foreman's favour.

I think he's 50-50 against a prime Norton, and I favour Frazier slightly against him.

But there's so many factors here. Imagine a prime and hungry Holmes meeting the Frazier that got ddetsroyed by Foreman. He probably wins that one and could also add an aging Ali to his collection of scalps. If he then gets a bit complacent and loses his title to Norton, who in turn loses it to Foreman... The chips can fall in a lot of ways.

His biggest slice of unluck could be meeting the man-eating monster that Frazier was when he beat Ellis/Foster/Ali. That could possible ruin him, thinking how durable and brave he was.

 

The Holmes that beat Cooney in that shuffle could possibly have beaten them all.

I think Frazier would have caused him a LOT of problems as could Foreman (who I feel is underrated H2H by the majority o guys on here)

I honestly think Holmes would have as good a chance against Ali as anyone. In fact, I'd pick Holmes to win two out of three.

 

I agreed with Mercante at the time that Holmes had the scoring locked up after ten against an aging Norton, before his injured left caught up to him. If both were healthy and peaking, I believe that Holmes would win a clear decision.

Foreman didn't have the speed, accuracy or straight punching necessary to prevail against Holmes.

Pre Foreman Frazier brought relentless crushing pressure into the ring. It was necessary to have the ability to be able to stand up to him at some point, like Bonavena did. (I know that Joe was diminished after the FOTC, but he still looked good against lesser lights Stander and Daniels.)

Could he have decisioned the Ali of 1975? Ron Lyle boxed him conservatively and smartly, and Ron was actually a little older than Muhammad, with far less experience.

Lyle himself could be the best candidate to surprise Holmes, having arguably the most impressive combination of skill, mobility and power possessed by any top heavyweight of the 1970s. (Ron had the punch to take Norton out.)

 

I think Holmes could have beaten Ali, Foreman, and Frazier by 1976 or 1977.

If Holmes switches placed with Jimmy Young, you could argue he was the #1 all time heavyweight.

5-10 years ago, most historians and internet boards were not as high on Holmes. Things have changed.

 

Holmes vs the Ali of post exile would have been damn close. I see Holmes sneaking by Frazier in an absolute war. He'd always have a bit of trouble vs peak Norton because all boxers did. He'd be a great chance vs Foreman too. I think he'd jab his way past Young.

I see Holmes finishing second at worst.

 

Holmes would not emerge from the 70s scene undefeated, but I think he certainly wouldn't be lost in the shuffle.

Prime Holmes is all wrong for Foreman, and would make George eat his jab and straight rights all day long while manuevering around Goerge's big shots. I also think that Holmes would be extremely difficult for Foreman to blow out, and if Foreman couldn't do that Larry would win by points or when George gassed out.

A prime Holmes is also a major difficulty for any post exile Ali. Some versions of that Ali would have a speed edge on Holmes, which might be a difference maker, but Holmes' skills, sharp punching, toughness, heart, and the fact that he might well force Ali to play the aggressor, (a role Ali rarely excelled in) would always make it a tough bout for Ali.

A prime Frazier would most likely be a life and death bout for Holmes. Even though it's been observed many times that Holmes' greatest weakness was a vulnerability to the overhand right, the pressure a FOTC era Frazier put on any fighter could be devastating. Holmes might take it, but then again he might not.

And Norton at his best is difficult for any boxer, but Holmes seems to have handled even a past prime Norton better than Ali did, I think if both men were in their primes and there were no other x factors like injuries, Holmes would most likely take a close but clear sort of bout from Norton.

That's looking pretty good, all told. I'd give Holmes a good chance to have a winning record against the greats of the early to mid 70s.

 

I think both hit the canvas and Holmes wins by split. Peak Holmes had a sterling right uppercut (i.e. Mike Weaver) and used this punch better than Ali ever did. Holmes heavy right hand would do it's share of damage on Frazier while he's dishing out his own left handed pain.