Calzaghe..,what makes him so good?

What other than getting stopped by a green Byron Mitchell? Other than that and his one decent win over cokehead Nunn and Little his resume is a veritable who's nobody of the superweight ranks.

Nunn was really good in his prime at middleweight. Nothing special at supermiddle.

 

What, like Kessler?

 

Workrate and stamina and older opponents who can no longer sustain those levels a full 12

 

It was pretty pointless Calzaghe hanging around.

1) The major money for fights isn't there with any of his realistic opposition.

2) The Super Middleweight division, whilst ripe with potential talent, doesn't really have any proven talent. If Calzaghe beats a Bute, or a Ward or a Froch.... they suddenly become a bum who's fought nobody. If he get's beat by any one of them he suddenly loses all credibility. Not exactly a lot of motivation to stick about. He would find himself in a similar position to what Hopkins now finds himself in.... Nobody out there to fight, that brings enough $$$'s to the table to compensate the risk. Why risk your legacy for little cash?

 

You repeat the ESB myth that Joe was some power puncher early in his career.

But what was he really "banging out" and in what manner?

TKOs can mean a couple different things on paper but represent a few additional things to those watching them occur (Sheika, Manfredo Jr., Woodall, & Mitchell could represent a couple different perspectives not to mention to the fans watching those fights).

And, these vaunted exhibitions, in his early pro career, of power punching or punching power/prowess are evidence of what again?


I wonder how he managed to last fifteen years going from a two-fisted banger to crippled arm puncher? Wonder which of those early pro career wars (if not all of them) did him in?

Was it drilling Paul Hanlon twice in the back of the head in the 1st round?

Was it Paul Mason slipping twice before getting knocked down legitmately by a punch before the ref abruptly called the fight in the 1st round with Mason competely fine?

Was it the long one round battle with the completely shot Frank Minton who came in 6-16 in his last 22 before facing young Joe (and then went 2-10 afterwards)?

Maybe it was the one round contest with that fat bum Robert Curry and his 33 losses?

Perhaps the work leading to the TKO in the 4th of Nick Manners in which Manners was completely unhurt and the ref stopped the fight anyway?

Or, the TKO in the 1st against Guy Stanford (who had lost 11 of 13 before the fight and another 9 of 10 after) in which Joe was allowed to hold and punch repeatedly and then the ref stopped it early - to Stanford's surprise - at being able to call it a night (and collect a check) for so little effort?

Could it have been the six minutes of sparring that ended with the TKO at the end of the 2nd when fat/overweight bum Warren Stowe just decided to quit on his stool?

Maybe the action before the bull**** ref stoppage in the 2nd round for a TKO of fat and horrible (by then) Pat Lawlor?

Can't ignore the test provided by Carlos Christie in that 2nd round TKO (of course, he had already been KO'd by Delaney, Catley, and Starie).

Just a random list, don't mean to slight those other TKOs against Spencer Alton, Martin Rosamond, Darren Littlewood, Karl Barwise, Mark Lee Dawson, Trevor Ambrose, Tyrone Jackson, Stephen Wilson, Anthony Brooks, Tyler Hughes, & Luciano Torres (all of which could invite similar color to emphasize the modesty of the accomplishment).

There is always a few on ESB who want to keep feeding the line that Joe was some devastating puncher (before his hand problems - as he TKOd/KOd no one of merit or no one of merit legitimately over the rest or remainder of his career) based upon his pre-Eubank fights.

Isn't it really the case that Joe was just more talented, athletic, and skilled then the collection of old men, bums, old bums, fat guys, and old fat guys that make up 95% of those first twenty-two fights of which he got 19 TKOs and the only 2 KOs of his entire career?

Most everyone begins their career against soft touches and some guys rattle off a nice list of KOs/TKOs. In Joe's case, why isn't it obvious (as it sure seems evident to me) that this accomplishment was a complete and absolute product of the so-called competition he faced? This achievement can't be used to substantiate what "he was" before his hand problems in defending his standing vis-a-vis the greatest in boxing's history. This is merely evidence (at the most generous) of being more talented than the local or regional level talent he faced (and the couple foreign phone-it-ins notwithstanding).


Joe's 70% KO ratio you cite is far less than impressive under the microscope. Joe has a pathetic TKO (forget about KO) ratio and ZERO against anyone decent or without controversy. That is Sven Ottke territory.

 

He has unique skills, and a relentless will to win. The last time he lost in the amateurs he was robbed, and he talks about it in his biography and he said it made him feel so angry and sick he swore he would never lose again. Hence, when he is struggling in a fight, his will and adaptability comes out of nowhere and he makes the fight his own.

 

this is so true.. specially at the cruisers and heavy weights....IE: anybody that is beaten by the K's is suddenly a bust/bum/eurobum

 

What are you talking about? Outside the UK what "legacy" does Joe Calzaghe have? So you're telling me that Calzaghe would not have got props if he joined the SMW Tournament and won all his matches? If anything he would have gotten way more respect for winning the tourney rather then his performances against over the hill fighters.

Calzaghe is no chump and he does some things very well. However, personally I cannot be a fan of the man. I'm sorry but as a boxing fan I love to see the technique in punching and Joe Calzaghe is lacking dearly technique-wise and is not entertaining enough to forget about it. A lot of you guys also act like power comes strictly from the HANDS, it doesn't. While he may have bad hands, if he decided to actually turn his body into a punch he might hurt someone. But then again if he actually punched properly and through the body he probably would not be able to throw 50 slaps in about 5 secs. His weak resume and the protection Frank Warren provided him with is also a deterrant.

Call me a hater, call me biased, call me whatever you want. I just don't enjoy watching the man fight. And whoever was talking about his 70% KO ratio, what about the fact that only 2 of them were actual KO's. So no, he had no power in his early days either and bad hands aren't the only reason he can't punch hard.

 

amen brother
finally somebody willing to dig a little deeper than the flashy stats on boxrec... probably because you've actually been following boxing more than 2 yrs

 

Yeah I know you wanna lose the plot but again:

I've got Joe at about #8 (could be a little lower) on the SMW All-Time Greatest List (just looking at the combination of TALENT/ATHLETICISM/SKILL/POWER/TOUGHNESS - not who had the best record, matchmaking, most careful promoter, the most predisposed local refs, abundant back pocket judges, etc.). In no particular order .. these guys are at the top of the list:


--------------------------

Liles was a proven talent fighting both RJJ and McClellan before the pros and giving them several tough fights - not the weak crap Joe got all of his "TKOs" against pre-Eubank. So, he was already a proven entity to anyone who actually WATCHES fighters instead of WORSHIPPING records. Losing at almost 35 years of age in his second to last fight against Byron Mitchell isn't a problem. Mitchell scared the hell out of the ref enough that he had to pull the plug with only 15 seconds in the second round when Mitchell went stumbling rather than allow what could have been a very interesting fight between JC and BM especially in light of Joe getting shook to his boots and hurt earlier in that round. Pity a rematch was never contemplated.

Liles was a very good fighter. Hence, his ranking in the first tier.

Nunn was a great middleweight. And, with 9 title fights (for some minor and major belts) at SMW he was a talent there too. See bolded above for why ....

 

his work rate.

 

You can rank em in any order you like by whatever criteria you like.

Problem is Calzaghe is clearly better head to head at 168 than most of the guys you rank ahead of him and in terms of achievement better than all of them.

Nunn for intance was really good at middleweight but by the time he was at 168 his antics were catching up with him and he was in and out of court and just didnt look like the fighter he once was. And you are obvioulsy overrating Liles something rotten. But hey, feel free.

As for Calzaghe's power while some do overrate rate it, you are being equally as silly in the opposite direction. He clearly floored a number of opponents with single shots, but single big shots were never his game. He was always a volume puncher and there aint no rule in boxing that says you have to KO guys to win let alone do it with a single punch. He punched hard enough often enough to win fights on points and draw stoppages. THAT is what is important.

Oh christ I just noticed you included Glen Johnson in your second tier list. Sorry you obviously have no idea about the division.

 

Dickhead, just because Calzaghe beat all the fighters you beat off to on a regular basis is no reason to not give him proper respect. Get over it. There's always FMJ to wank off to. Enjoy.

 

he has fought alot of top fighters but hasnt beat any p4p prime fighters thats why he will never be a legend coz every great fighter he fought was past there best

 

stamina