Many people consider Sugar Ray Robinson the GOAT...

Excuses aren't necessary here. :good

(By the way, what do you say about Monzon? Is he also a bum because he doesn't look great on film?)

 

Don't waste your time. The majority of the boxing community have Robinson as No. 1 GOAT. That's all that matters.

 

In the United States, boxing became vastly stronger, in my judgement, in the late thirties with the Joe Louis era. The reason is obvious. Integration. Black talent had been cut off at the roots. Why even go into a sport where one got the nothing end of the purse, the best trainers looked the other way, and one was expected to lay down for top white fighters. Things weren't perfect after Joe Louis, but they were better, and there was a tremendous influx of black talent. The forties were certainly better for boxing in America than any previous decade had been.
It should be noted that there were also few other options for black athletes. Most major Amercican sports remained segregated until the late forties (baseball, gridiron football) or even the fifties (NBA).
Sugar Ray Robinson is perhaps the best example of the impact on boxing. Robinson's first love was baseball and baseball scouts who saw him play rated him a top prospect. Had he been born ten years later, Robinson would most likely have been a major league baseball player.

It is also fair to state that historical fluctuations can go the other way. In the United States, the white ethnic boxers so prominent in the first half of the century began to abandon the sport after about 1950 and perhaps a little earlier. This process can actually be traced by checking the Ring Magazine top tens. For example, between 1946 and 1955 there were 12 white American-born fighters rated among the top five heavyweight contenders. Between 1960 and 1979, there were only two, Quarry and Bobick.

If there was a cliche among American boxing "experts" in the sixties, it was that boxing was regressing, or even dying. Everyone harped on the theme that there just weren't as many good fighters as there used to be.

 

Yet he and his opponents did not exhibit skills above and beyond the likes of Robinson & co....

Did boxing skill improve at the same time that color film became available?

 

Bumped for Amsterdam (it's back a few pages)

 

Thanks, I'll review.

 

Okay, first of all, he's flat footed and leans into that awful jab far too much instead of stepping behind it like any modern top class fighter does.

In the first bit, around 5:05 he throws a sloppy flurry very off balance, showcasing what I was talking about with footwork, during this, he was wide open for a monster counter.

Also, leverage on his shots? That jab is just awful and he's leaning into it with no snap. There is no precision at all in his punches and they are not coming up through the legs. I'm really amazed at what I am seeing here honestly, in a negative way.

I could finish the video and cite more problems, but honestly, it's depressing.

I await your response.

 

Well outside of the heavyweights, There was no color bar in the lower weights in the EARLY 1930's.


The lower weights were pretty much taking over by the blacks and the jews.

Barney Ross hide behind no color bar.

 

I can't believe a Calzaghe fan is criticizing the technique of others.

 

He's twisting slightly to turn his shoulder to the opponent to guard his head as he's throwing the jab. This causes him to lean in a little, but it isn't a massive flaw. A flaw, but not a terrible one.

As to flat footedness...he has his back foot elevated, as is typical. He drags and push-steps at times, but this is not bad boxing technique (in fact, it's one of the first things learned). And at any rate, he skip-steps pretty frequently in the opening frames.

He is only off balance for the last punch--the lunging right to the body. For the rest, he fires and repositions, shifting to Ray's left blind side as he does so. This particular part weakens your case, since as mentioned earlier he does it against a moving target.

He's getting good leverage on many of his shots.

Watch about 5:04 to 4:52. He steps into the jab, feints stepping into the jab, prepares to jab again and in so doing steps in. Also rotates his body while changing direction and jabbing to get leverage on it. He then clearly rotates his body, and especially his back foot, when he throws his power punches at Robinson's body.

It's hard to be precise against Robinson. But many of them ARE coming up through the legs. Most, except for when he paws with the jab.

Tag.

 

:rofl

:rofl :rofl :rofl

 

Excellent point.

 

I got a chance to drop down to the library and view your clips. I can't give you a specific time, but what impressed me was LaMotta's superior head movement. He fought in a crouch but constantly shifted his torso. If you imagine his head against a clock background, his head would be swinging between the 8 and the 4, depending on what punch Robinson was trying to hit him with. The modern fighters fought straight up with less headmovement in these clips from Manfredo and Baldimir. Mayweather showed good head movement. Calzaghe didn't but didn't have to against a hapless opponent.
I didn't get a chance to view Pep and Saddler, but I didn't myself notice anything the modern guys were doing that the old timers didn't. Clearly LaMotta has a different style than all the others.