Dempsey vs greb 15 rounds

And its asinine comments like this that show you are either biased or dont know anything about the subject you choose to troll on. Sparring means jack ****? Dempsey didnt know how to spar. He sparred like he fought. You are talking about a guy who regularly knocked out his sparring partners whenever he could even if they were novices. He never went easy on anyone. So, he suddenly goes easy on Greb who was going all out on him? Why? He got his ass kicked, stop making excuses. Why would you assume Greb would fight Dempsey like Frazier? Their styles were NOTHING alike. That comment is ridiculous. And I only think Dempsey's power would have a horrible effect on a 165 pound man if A. I believe that Dempsey was the legendary bonecrusher he was supposed to be and not a guy whose record of KOs was built on hand picked opponents, and B. If he could actually hit Greb to hurt him. I dont think either so...

 

Dempsey was notorious for being very hard on his sparring partners, sometimes even the small guys suffered badly,Larry Gains confirmed this in his book.

Dempsey kod Martin Bourke, a sparring partner several times ,and he was fond of Bourke.
Dempsey broke the jaw of Big Ben Wray a 7 foot 2in giant with two punches, he took no prisoners in training.
If he could have nailed Greb he would have,same as Loughran.
That said I think over 15 rds his chances would increase dramatically.

 

I mention Rocky since we have debated him constantly for the past year. Is there a grandfather I don't know about here ?... now since you brought up Rocky how would a Tyson , Tua, Foreman or Lewis's power be handled by a 187 pound fighter ?

I base my opinions of Greb on everything I have read over 25 years studying the sport. What film are you basing his Frazier like approach on ? I happen to think if Dempsey did not get him early he was in for a long night. Greb had better proven stamina than Dempsey. I can definately see Greb winning a ten round decision. Fifteen, who knows ?

 

I would say Greb had better stamina than just about anybody, including Henry Armstrong,Tommy Loughran described him as freakish in that department.
ps still think Dempsey nails him over 15rds.

 

Could very well be right. However, most agree it would be an interesting match up rather than a blow out ...

 

Certainly no blow out ,in fact Greb would probably be in front at the time :good

 

Dont forget Dempsey also slaughtered a newspaper man that sparred with him (I cant remember his name but he was famous) knocking him stone cold in less than a minute. If you cant take it easy on a novice cub reporter you wanna argue with me that he was going to take it easy with the man who was considered almost universally at that time the best MW and LHW in the country and who was taking it to Dempsey??? In the very same training camp a soldier came over from one of the nearby army camps and offered to spar with Dempsey. Dempsey absolutely destroyed him in one round. These stories are legion from pretty much every training camp Dempsey had from Willard on. It absolutely confounds me that some people will try to argue with a straight face that somehow Dempsey was taking it easy on Greb. What would his motivation have been? He wasnt afraid to hurt men who had no training whatsoever in boxing but he was afraid to hurt Greb? Come on, that just doesnt wash. He wasnt trying NOT to hurt Greb, he was trying hard TO HURT Greb and simply couldnt find him.

 

The reporter was Paul Gallico,Dempsey did not ko him ,Gallico asked Dempsy to confine himself to head punches ,as he didnt think he could take it to the body. Dempsey came out in usual fashion ,and Gallico landed a light jab,Dempsey got in range and threw a shot to Gallico's nose which buzzed him Dempsey ,seeing the lad was hurt said "hold on till your head clears kid". Gallico clinched and Dempsey ,allmost absent -mindedly , according to Gallico hit him with a couple of rabbit punches which sent him spinning . Kearns ,who had been concerned Gallico might have been a "ringer" rung the bell to stop the action.
Both Dempsey, and Gallico's accounts tally on this, so I think we can take it as reliable.Gallico went on to have a successful career as a journalist and writer ,and wrote one famous novel, the SNOW GOOSE.

 

Ive seen the newspaper report, I dont remember it word for word but Im pretty sure Gallico was out cold and had to have smelling accounts. I wish now I had made a copy of the newspaper it was in.

 

Here is the story. Kerarns was notoriously protective of Dempsey and was always on the lookout for a ringer to get into the ring and flatten an unprepared Dempsey with a lucky or sneaky shot. He protected his investment very carefully. Dempsey agreed to spar with Galico without running it by Kearns and Kearns was furious but Jack was determined to see his promise to the reporter, who was a tall, athletic looking guy. That being the case, when the bell rang Dempsey cracked him to be sure it was not a setup. When he saw Galico collaspe (Paul wrote it was if his world collasped) and knew he was not a threat, Dempsey let up. However there is no record anywhere of Dempsey ever letting up on a guy who went after him. It almost cost him his title v.s. Firpo but it was simkply not in his makeup. Even in his movie career Dempsey consistantly knocked out his fellow actors. He could not hold back.

 

Greb by decision, Greb wanted the fight but Kearns wouldn't let Dempsey anywhere near him in a real fight.

 

The inventor of modern participative sports journalism (a distinction later misappropriated for George Plimpton at his death) also wrote something titled, "The Poseidon Adventure," and lived to see that story adapted to film. A few decades earlier, another book of his, "Lou Gehrig: Pride of the Yankees," was also brought to the big screen.

After Tunney's first loss to Greb, Gene's stablemate Benny Leonard advised him to target Harry's body. This is advice Dempsey would have hardly needed. With his power, Jack was able to take out rugged veterans like Willard, Brennan, Miske, and Battling Levinski in a way nobody had ever come close to doing before. (As ill as he was, nobody did that to Miske before or since.) His body attack destroyed Carp and Brennan in their title fights.

Carp got off to a fast start with his superior speed like Harry would have. But Greb never dealt with the kind of crushing power Dempsey brought to the table over an extended distance, and Harry never really outgrew the middleweight division.

I don't think it would go to a decision, but if it did it wouldn't be impossible for Jack's body attack to win the judgement. Loughran and Tunney proved that it was possible to compete with Greb on points using a downstairs assault, and Dempsey had the necessary speed to catch him enough to slow him down sufficiently and offset Harry's superior stamina.

This was probably a can't win situation for Jack's legacy, especially after Carpentier. He needed the slower and aging Wills, a match which would have extended his reign after Firpo.

 

I have Gallico's account and Dempsy's line on it can be found in Randy Roberts book .

 

I haven't read it in many years, but his writing was vivid enough that I've never felt any need to return to it.

 

Who ever stopped Harry with bodyshots? Willard was old out of shape and inactive when he fought Jack, Jack was behind or even on most scorecards against Brennan when Brennan finally faded (the same Brennan Greb didnt lose a round to in 4 fights), Miske was dying of a Kidney ailment which Jack KNEW about, you wanna brag about those bodyshots?LOL! And Levinsky was inactive and working at the boatyards for the war effort when he fought Dempsey, he couldnt train for the fight. All of those men with the exception of Willard lost to Greb. Willard for his part believed Greb was the only man who could beat Dempsey. And as for Carpentier you are talking about a man not known for his durability at MW much less HW and a man who refused to even spar with Greb. Sorry but you arent even comparing apples to oranges. Its more like Pinapples to apples...

Sorry but Im convinced by the myth of Dempey's crushing power. See above for my thoughts on Carpentier who I consider one of the most overrated fighters in history.

Loughran and Tunney were both much faster, better boxers than Greb. Their game wasnt loading up and looking for a KO like Dempsey, it was boxing for a points win. Again, you are comparing two completely different types of fighters and styles and frankly in Loughran and Tunney you are talking about better fighters than Dempsey as both showed.

Yeah and he didnt really seem too eager to face Will's either did he? Jack doesnt exactly seem like the Tiger his fans credit him with being...