Who has the style to upset a prime Ali

The trouble i have with picking out one single fight (you do it a bit, in SRR vs Hearns too) and building a large base from it is that it can be done with anyone.

Now in all seriousness how inspired and on fire do you think Ali would have been against Folley? Folley was hardly someone to get "up" for when talking Ali and he had some very serious matters going on. Remember too, he'd beaten Terrell over 15 just the month before :blood - incredibly sharp in that one tho. He had some hate happening there and Terrell was higher rated.

We could look at Holmes - Snipes and summise in a bubble that if Snipes could have him hurt that bad what might a serious peak Ali do. If he struggled to box a Mike Weaver what would Ali do, etc.

I actually agree Holmes is a great call, tho i'd still take Ali via decision.

I take the pre exile Ali over anyone, but think Frazier would be very very dangerous. Joe Louis too, but i think Ali would outspeed him. I won't dredge up Conn and Walcott tho

So if i had to pick someone with my life on the line it'd be Frazier, followed by Holmes.

 

I don't know if anyone really has the right style...maybe the right set of attributes.
I've said it an the past, but for me Larry had the right kind of skillset to give Ali fits, and Holmes was also a smart fighter with plenty of savvy.

Frazier's style meshed beautifully with Ali's, but whether that is the right style to beat him is not such an easy question to answer.

 

Holmes and Lewis have potentially the most chance,imo.With Holmes ,the better option imo.
I think Walcott could make things difficult for awhile.
Dempsey for the first 6 rds,possibly Tyson too.

Holmes because of his jab and size ,plus he was quick.
Lewis had a good jab ,a little overated but good ,big man solid fundamentals, but lacked the speed to beat Ali in the crunch imo.

Walcott's herky jerky side to side cake walk ,shoulder feints and boxing ability would throw Ali's timing off imo,but eventually Ali would begin to land consistantly enough to take a dec.
Dempsey's hand and foot speed ,plus his explosive power would make him very dangerous in the early rounds,then Ali's size and quick jab would begin to dominate ,as his fast feet took him away from the Mauler's attacks.
Tyson's hand speed and his deftness at closing the distance make him a perilous nights work for anyone,I think Ali would smother him up close and frustrate him enough to win with a long range attack ,Tyson would start to run down after the middle part of the fight.

 

Ali always had trouble with left hooks.

I always start this debate by looking at Dempsey, Frazier, Tyson, Walcott, Holyfield and Charles.

Whenever Ali wound up the right uppercut he'd get nailed by a left hook.

Norton threw a left hook instead of a jab.

Ali is a hard man to beat so you need to look at what few weaknesses he had.

 

The two types that a prime Ali would have the most problem with are jabbers and pressure fighters. In the former category larry Holmes is the best example. Whether he would have actually beaten a prime Ali,imo,is doubtful. I have written before that,I believe the Ali of 1972-74,in shape and focused,would have the edge on a prime Holmes. So if Larry could n't beat a 70's best Ali,then he would n't beat an overall best Ali ! After all,Larry found jabbers a problem too. He found Ken Norton tough. Same with Carl Williams,and Ali's jab would have bothered him too. Pressurising fighters such as Joe Frazier and Rocky Marciano are the best example of that category. Think too,the reason out of all his opponents,Muhammad found Norton the biggest enigma. He was pressure fighter with a good jab.

 

The 1980 Holmes, the 1939 Louis and the Riddick Bowe of Holyfield 1 would be very tought fights. A prime Dempsey as well.

 

I am going to start with the assumption that I have nothing to loose by throwing these fighters at Ali and neither do they. With that in mind it can be done the following ways:

Pressure fighter
Obviously Joe Frazier did beat Muhamad Ali. Based on the Chuvalo fight I would not rule out the possibility that he would always have done so.

Based on the Frazier fights and the Chuvalo fight I would suggest that Rocky Marciano would have a good chance and some other pressure fighters (Marvin Hart, Tommy Farr, David Tua and others) would at least have been able to make it an interesting fight.

Counterpuncher
Ken Norton essentialy beat Ali by clever use of counterpunching and Ali never really did find a way to foil it. I do not imagine for one minute that Norton is the only fighter in history who could have employed this strategy sucesfully.

While other fighters could have beaten ali using this method it is hard to say who they are and some of the results might be surprizing. The obvious suspects would include Jack Johnson, Joe Louis, Larry Holmes and Lennox Lewis.

Smaller defensive fighter
While Jimmy Young did not beat Ali he did prove that he did not fight a smart fight against a smaller defensive fighter who worked on the back foot. It would be interesting to say the least to see how he might have fared against Gene Tunney, Tommy Loughran, Maxie Rosenbloom, Bob Pastor, Archie Moore and others. I suggest that if Ali had fought in an era where a lot of these little sheisters were around it is likley that he would have droped a decision to one of them somwhere allong the line.

Finisher
This is probably the lest likley strategy to work. Although Ali was in the ring with a lot of big punchers such as Foreman and Shavers none of them were really finishers. It cannot be ruled out that sombody like Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis or Mike Tyson could have put him down for the count.

Other ruleset
The final option is simply to match him under a ruleset to which he is not suited. Sombody like Sullivan or Jeffries might have taken him under the ruleset of their own era.

 

I think to beat Prime Ali you need to put on constant pressure and be able to cut of the ring (easier said than done). The obvious fighters that spring to mind are Frazier and Tyson. They don't waste many punches ( a la Foreman) and are both very accurate especially the left hook. I can understand why people say Holmes and Lewis because of the jab but I just feel you need to get him rattled and don't alow him to much time to think.

That said if your talking about the Ali that beat Cleveland Williams. Then I don't think he can be beat.

 

Larry Holmes. Prime for Prime would beat Ali IMO.

 

These two fought an Ali that was far far different from the one i see as peak around exile.IMO the younger faster and more nimble Ali would have gone quite ok vs these two. Frazier would have been much tougher i think.

 

I always said the best bet in my opinion was Marciano, the only thing that puts me off is the size.

 

I don't know about that. While I think Marciano the better overall fighter, Frazier's more scientific pressure would be absolutely instrumental here in beating Ali. He's the single best bet we have. I'd pick him.

Holmes would be another who'd possibly pose some problems, and I've been swayed in the past to pick him. However, the argument of styles swings both ways. In a tight contest I'm more inclined to pick Ali who'd be backing up, making Larry Holmes lead, etc.