What if three of the six win one fight each?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Ramón, Oct 20, 2009.


  1. Ramón

    Ramón Guest

    Let's say, Froch gets beaten by Kessler and Abraham, Dirrell loses to Abraham but outpoints Ward, and Ward loses to Kessler and Dirrell but outpoints Taylor. Then, Froch, Dirrell and Ward would each have two points. Which two of these three would go through to the semifinals?
     
  2. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Kessler moves on due to the extra point he got due to Frochy's horizontal positioning.

    Now wait, that's no good... Well, I think someone has to score a KO then, or they are in big trouble.

    It think there's a possibility of your hole in the scoring system, but in the end, it might have a minimal chance of happening, since in 9 fights the possibility of 3 fighters finishing with the same exact score is about 15-20%.
     
  3. Gaikokujin

    Gaikokujin 外国人 Full Member

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    If this were to happen I think that Froch & Dirrell would go through, as Dirrell would have a tie-breaker victory over Ward & Froch then has a tie-breaker victory over Dirrell. Ward's victory over Taylor would count the least in this instance as he would (assumedly) have lost all 3 of his fights.
     
  4. threethirteen

    threethirteen Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I believe they have a system for working it out.
     
  5. Ramón

    Ramón Guest

    As far as I know, you don't get penalised for getting stopped. You only get a one point bonus for stopping someone. So even if one of the fighters gets stopped while the others don't, they'd still have two points each.
     
  6. Ramón

    Ramón Guest

    But why should the fighter who beat one of the fighters who is going through not go through? If Dirrell goes through on two points, why shouldn't Ward, who beat Dirrell, go through on two points?
     
  7. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    :think Maybe the KO loss will make the difference?

    Commentators wrongfully pointed out that Taylor wants to survive not to lose an extra point. But why would you lose an extra point if you get 0 for a loss anyway? So, it was either a stupid mistake - or KO losses make the difference. So I think you nailed it.
     
  8. Ramón

    Ramón Guest

    Care to guess what a fair system would look like?
     
  9. Gaikokujin

    Gaikokujin 外国人 Full Member

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    But your example said that Dirrell beat Ward, not the other way round as you've just put. If Ward beats Dirrell AND Taylor then he would have 4 points not 2 and Dirrell would have zero, so which is it?
     
  10. Ramón

    Ramón Guest

    There are many good reasons why a fighter should try to avoid getting stopped in a fight they are losing. And if a KO loss makes a difference, they should have said so from the beginning when they told us how the scoring system worked. They said: 0 points for a loss and a one point bonus for a stoppage win. They didn't say: a one point deduction for a stoppage loss. And what if none of the three lose by stoppage? Then what?
     
  11. Ramón

    Ramón Guest

    You are right. My mistake. I switched them round.

    No, Ward beats Taylor but loses to Dirrell, as in my first post.

    "If this were to happen I think that Froch & Dirrell would go through, as Dirrell would have a tie-breaker victory over Ward & Froch then has a tie-breaker victory over Dirrell. Ward's victory over Taylor would count the least in this instance as he would (assumedly) have lost all 3 of his fights."

    I guess this would be sensible, but they never mentioned that a win over one opponent counts for less than a win against another, just because that one opponent lost two in a row previously. They don't run a handicap here. They award a set number of points/any one victory. So, according to their own system, it would be unfair.
     
  12. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Even smaller chance of happening. But still can happen. There are 9 fights which means 9 wins and 9 losses, uneven number which minimizes the chance of finishing with the same score. I didn't hear about -1 for a KO loss, but maybe it will only matter if they will have the same scores, so no point deductions, just a note who lost how.
     
  13. Ramón

    Ramón Guest

    I'm not worried in any case. Don't much care who goes through as long as Kessler and Abraham do. Only made this thread to point out more problems with the system. As you know, I am not a big fan of the tournament.

    But the scenario is not as unlikely to happen as all that.
     
  14. BigBone

    BigBone Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Yeah, you're right Ramón... but writers like Rafael pointed out that all angles, details and possibilities are covered in the contracts. And since the point system is one of the cornerstones of the whole thing, I think they already worked this issue out.
     
  15. Gaikokujin

    Gaikokujin 外国人 Full Member

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    I don't really think it's that unfair. In the example you've given it would be slightly unfortunate for Ward that his only points would come against the statistically weakest fighter in the tournament, but at the same time you could argue strongly that if Dirrell & Froch had been given the opportunity to fight Taylor they would also have beaten him as well which would cancel out Ward's victory. Dirrell's victory over Ward would have to be ranked higher than Ward beating Taylor, which means that Froch's victory over Dirrell would then have to rank higher again.

    It's a pretty standard way of sorting out a tie-break to only take into account the results against the people/teams involved but it's just unfortunate that with the way the tournament is set up it can seem slightly imbalanced. The only way they could've got round it would be to have everybody fight each other once to cover all eventualities but doing that would mean a tournament lasting nearer 3-4 years than the 18 months or so it will now.