Manny Pacquiao: Has he really moved up and fought the best as fans say?

kalunya5964 · Nov 3, 2009

pugilistspecialist said: ↑

112-is debatable here

Paulie Ayala was the best at 122, Ring Magazine Champion, 1999 fighter of the year and 2 wins over future HOFer Johnny Tapia im sure you know that so no....Ledwaba was a very good fighter top5 but he wasnt the best...At the time Vazquez and Larios were ranked higher...he didnt fight the best at the weight

He hasnt fought Cotto yet, he only fought one fight and that is DLH....further more Floyd Mayweather is the best at 147, he was the undefeated lineal champ and has comeback....Cotto and Mosley are the top 2 contenders outside Mayweather. For him to fight the best at 147 he has to beat Mayweather and no one else.
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Sasakul was the lineal champion at 112.

Paulie Ayala and Jhonny Tapia had already moved to 126 by the time (June 2001) Pac was fighting Ledwaba. Larios and Vasquez were nowhere near the scene, they became 122 champions in May 2002 and March 2004 respectively. Larios and Vasquez couldn't be ranked higher than Ledwaba who was actually the top 122 at that time.

Mosley and Cotto are arguably the best WW at present. Mayweather who has not fought a true welterweight for nearly three years can not be ranked higher than these two.

Low37 · Nov 3, 2009

Sweet Pea Pacquiao said: ↑

Time to get owned. From your statements it's clear you didn't watch boxing at the time, or if you did, only watched Roy Jones fight subpar competition at that stage in his career when after moving up to 175 to fight Griffin and Hill got too comfortable taking HBO's money and fighting guys with great records but no real substance. Oh, and so you can go draw a timeline, that's 1998-2003 (until he fought Ruiz at heavy, a true challenge). I'll estimate you were about 11-12 years old at the time. Go get a crayon.

To show you a parallel and how time works, Pacquiao was 19 years old when he fought at 112 in 1998, the same year Jones fought Virgil Hill in what should've been the prime of Roy's career. He defeated Sasakul, who the LINEAR champion and held a win over Yuri Arbachakov, who was arguably the #1 or #2 flyweight in the world based on Ring Magazine. For you to imply that Sasakul was a bum says it all. At flyweight he fought the best available.

Then three years later in JUNE 2001 he moved up to 122 and in his first fight in America, destroyed IBF champ Lehlo Ledwaba, who had reached a peak of #6 at one point in USA Today's Super Six P4P list (Dan Rafael's old newspaper before he moved on to ESPN) and was consensus Top 15.

Here's where you get exposed like the idiot you are. You say Vazquez was rated higher than Ledwaba so Pac avoided him.

BUT at the time Pac KO'd him, LL had defended his belt FIVE TIMES, and VAZQUEZ hadn't even fought for a world title yet!!! And yet you argue he was rated higher than Ledwaba? Israel is a hell of a fighter and person, but at the time he was an unknown...and get this...PACQUIAO'S SPARMATE FOR LEDWABA. How do I know this? Because I SAW THEM SPAR AT THE WILD CARD DURING THAT TIME!!! :rofl

I'm not done with you yet. You bring up Ayala, which seems on the surface to be a valid argument, but again, you probably weren't really watching boxing at the time, so it's ok. Ayala had fought at 118 and a catchweight ABOVE 122 when he fought Tapia twice. Talks had begun with Pacquiao's handler, Murad Muhammad in 2001, but instead of fighting Manny immediately after his first fight with Bones Adams, which was proposed, Ayala CHOSE to give Adams a rematch instead because he had only won by SD.

Then by the time Ayala was done, did he pursue the Pac fight? NO, he moved up to fight Erik Morales instead for more money and the WBC featherweight title, which again, if you ever followed boxing, would understand that Pac was still an unknown compared to Morales who had a huge following and was P4P by then.

Meanwhile, Manny stayed at 122 and tried to unify with Agapito Sanchez's WBO belt, arguably the #2 super bantam at the time. So fighting Ledwaba and Sanchez constituted fighting the best available. Larios was the other option and there is one fighter I can say no serious talks ever had been made. But they ended up fighting anyway albeit later.

Then for you to say he didn't fight the best at 126 or 130 because they were past prime, you're a moron. Barrera was the champ by virtue of beating Hamed, and he lost. He was the BEST FEATHERWEIGHT in the world at the time. Oh yeah, Barrera won 2 belts at 130 AFTER getting destroyed by Pac, so there goes your "washed up" argument. And unlike RJJ never fighting Daruisz Michalczewski, the only challenge left at 175 aside from Tarver, Pac fought Marquez and even gave him a second chance at 130. More than I can say for Roy. Then throw in HOF Morales, whom he split the first 2 with and fought the third (the third is the only fight I feel he was truly shot) because Morales had shown him the respect to give Manny a rematch after the first fight. He didn't fight the best at 126-130? STFU.

I don't think anyone on this board would argue that he fought the best at 135. I sure don't. But if you're gonna sit here and tell me he was unjustified in fighting Oscar De La Hoya for the biggest payday of his career while still having the burden of moving up TWELVE POUNDS and TWO WEIGHT CLASSES.

140 you at least acknowledged Pac fighting the best, but you only did that because you wanted to look half-******ed, and not expose the fully empty cavity you call a skull.

You won't give credit for 147 unless he beats Cotto, or whatever your nonsensical argument is.

Oh, and for the record, Cotto will be the 12th World Champ Pac has fought (he has beaten 10 so far).

Wow, that was easy. Now go formulate another stupid angle to attack Pacquiao's resume, because this one is officially dead. :hi:
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----The End---

cloud_cyc · Nov 3, 2009

Sweet Pea Pacquiao said: ↑

Time to get owned. From your statements it's clear you didn't watch boxing at the time, or if you did, only watched Roy Jones fight subpar competition at that stage in his career when after moving up to 175 to fight Griffin and Hill got too comfortable taking HBO's money and fighting guys with great records but no real substance. Oh, and so you can go draw a timeline, that's 1998-2003 (until he fought Ruiz at heavy, a true challenge). I'll estimate you were about 11-12 years old at the time. Go get a crayon.

To show you a parallel and how time works, Pacquiao was 19 years old when he fought at 112 in 1998, the same year Jones fought Virgil Hill in what should've been the prime of Roy's career. He defeated Sasakul, who the LINEAR champion and held a win over Yuri Arbachakov, who was arguably the #1 or #2 flyweight in the world based on Ring Magazine. For you to imply that Sasakul was a bum says it all. At flyweight he fought the best available.

Then three years later in JUNE 2001 he moved up to 122 and in his first fight in America, destroyed IBF champ Lehlo Ledwaba, who had reached a peak of #6 at one point in USA Today's Super Six P4P list (Dan Rafael's old newspaper before he moved on to ESPN) and was consensus Top 15.

Here's where you get exposed like the idiot you are. You say Vazquez was rated higher than Ledwaba so Pac avoided him.

BUT at the time Pac KO'd him, LL had defended his belt FIVE TIMES, and VAZQUEZ hadn't even fought for a world title yet!!! And yet you argue he was rated higher than Ledwaba? Israel is a hell of a fighter and person, but at the time he was an unknown...and get this...PACQUIAO'S SPARMATE FOR LEDWABA. How do I know this? Because I SAW THEM SPAR AT THE WILD CARD DURING THAT TIME!!! :rofl

I'm not done with you yet. You bring up Ayala, which seems on the surface to be a valid argument, but again, you probably weren't really watching boxing at the time, so it's ok. Ayala had fought at 118 and a catchweight ABOVE 122 when he fought Tapia twice. Talks had begun with Pacquiao's handler, Murad Muhammad in 2001, but instead of fighting Manny immediately after his first fight with Bones Adams, which was proposed, Ayala CHOSE to give Adams a rematch instead because he had only won by SD.

Then by the time Ayala was done, did he pursue the Pac fight? NO, he moved up to fight Erik Morales instead for more money and the WBC featherweight title, which again, if you ever followed boxing, would understand that Pac was still an unknown compared to Morales who had a huge following and was P4P by then.

Meanwhile, Manny stayed at 122 and tried to unify with Agapito Sanchez's WBO belt, arguably the #2 super bantam at the time. So fighting Ledwaba and Sanchez constituted fighting the best available. Larios was the other option and there is one fighter I can say no serious talks ever had been made. But they ended up fighting anyway albeit later.

Then for you to say he didn't fight the best at 126 or 130 because they were past prime, you're a moron. Barrera was the champ by virtue of beating Hamed, and he lost. He was the BEST FEATHERWEIGHT in the world at the time. Oh yeah, Barrera won 2 belts at 130 AFTER getting destroyed by Pac, so there goes your "washed up" argument. And unlike RJJ never fighting Daruisz Michalczewski, the only challenge left at 175 aside from Tarver, Pac fought Marquez and even gave him a second chance at 130. More than I can say for Roy. Then throw in HOF Morales, whom he split the first 2 with and fought the third (the third is the only fight I feel he was truly shot) because Morales had shown him the respect to give Manny a rematch after the first fight. He didn't fight the best at 126-130? STFU.

I don't think anyone on this board would argue that he fought the best at 135. I sure don't. But if you're gonna sit here and tell me he was unjustified in fighting Oscar De La Hoya for the biggest payday of his career while still having the burden of moving up TWELVE POUNDS and TWO WEIGHT CLASSES.

140 you at least acknowledged Pac fighting the best, but you only did that because you wanted to look half-******ed, and not expose the fully empty cavity you call a skull.

You won't give credit for 147 unless he beats Cotto, or whatever your nonsensical argument is.

Oh, and for the record, Cotto will be the 12th World Champ Pac has fought (he has beaten 10 so far).

Wow, that was easy. Now go formulate another stupid angle to attack Pacquiao's resume, because this one is officially dead. :hi:
Click to expand...

f*ckin nice post :good

kalunya5964 · Nov 3, 2009

Popkins said: ↑

A very, very tired argument. Pacquiao has one of the best resumes of the past 20 years. Not only has he fought the best available, but he has fought them numerous times. Try another tactic to discredit him, because this old boring bull**** is convincing no *******.
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Agree. But what was worse was these *******s kept on distorting facts and supplant the truth with their idiotic opinion.

waway · Nov 3, 2009

Sweet Pea Pacquiao said: ↑

Time to get owned. From your statements it's clear you didn't watch boxing at the time, or if you did, only watched Roy Jones fight subpar competition at that stage in his career when after moving up to 175 to fight Griffin and Hill got too comfortable taking HBO's money and fighting guys with great records but no real substance. Oh, and so you can go draw a timeline, that's 1998-2003 (until he fought Ruiz at heavy, a true challenge). I'll estimate you were about 11-12 years old at the time. Go get a crayon.

To show you a parallel and how time works, Pacquiao was 19 years old when he fought at 112 in 1998, the same year Jones fought Virgil Hill in what should've been the prime of Roy's career. He defeated Sasakul, who the LINEAR champion and held a win over Yuri Arbachakov, who was arguably the #1 or #2 flyweight in the world based on Ring Magazine. For you to imply that Sasakul was a bum says it all. At flyweight he fought the best available.

Then three years later in JUNE 2001 he moved up to 122 and in his first fight in America, destroyed IBF champ Lehlo Ledwaba, who had reached a peak of #6 at one point in USA Today's Super Six P4P list (Dan Rafael's old newspaper before he moved on to ESPN) and was consensus Top 15.

Here's where you get exposed like the idiot you are. You say Vazquez was rated higher than Ledwaba so Pac avoided him.

BUT at the time Pac KO'd him, LL had defended his belt FIVE TIMES, and VAZQUEZ hadn't even fought for a world title yet!!! And yet you argue he was rated higher than Ledwaba? Israel is a hell of a fighter and person, but at the time he was an unknown...and get this...PACQUIAO'S SPARMATE FOR LEDWABA. How do I know this? Because I SAW THEM SPAR AT THE WILD CARD DURING THAT TIME!!! :rofl

I'm not done with you yet. You bring up Ayala, which seems on the surface to be a valid argument, but again, you probably weren't really watching boxing at the time, so it's ok. Ayala had fought at 118 and a catchweight ABOVE 122 when he fought Tapia twice. Talks had begun with Pacquiao's handler, Murad Muhammad in 2001, but instead of fighting Manny immediately after his first fight with Bones Adams, which was proposed, Ayala CHOSE to give Adams a rematch instead because he had only won by SD.

Then by the time Ayala was done, did he pursue the Pac fight? NO, he moved up to fight Erik Morales instead for more money and the WBC featherweight title, which again, if you ever followed boxing, would understand that Pac was still an unknown compared to Morales who had a huge following and was P4P by then.

Meanwhile, Manny stayed at 122 and tried to unify with Agapito Sanchez's WBO belt, arguably the #2 super bantam at the time. So fighting Ledwaba and Sanchez constituted fighting the best available. Larios was the other option and there is one fighter I can say no serious talks ever had been made. But they ended up fighting anyway albeit later.

Then for you to say he didn't fight the best at 126 or 130 because they were past prime, you're a moron. Barrera was the champ by virtue of beating Hamed, and he lost. He was the BEST FEATHERWEIGHT in the world at the time. Oh yeah, Barrera won 2 belts at 130 AFTER getting destroyed by Pac, so there goes your "washed up" argument. And unlike RJJ never fighting Daruisz Michalczewski, the only challenge left at 175 aside from Tarver, Pac fought Marquez and even gave him a second chance at 130. More than I can say for Roy. Then throw in HOF Morales, whom he split the first 2 with and fought the third (the third is the only fight I feel he was truly shot) because Morales had shown him the respect to give Manny a rematch after the first fight. He didn't fight the best at 126-130? STFU.

I don't think anyone on this board would argue that he fought the best at 135. I sure don't. But if you're gonna sit here and tell me he was unjustified in fighting Oscar De La Hoya for the biggest payday of his career while still having the burden of moving up TWELVE POUNDS and TWO WEIGHT CLASSES.

140 you at least acknowledged Pac fighting the best, but you only did that because you wanted to look half-******ed, and not expose the fully empty cavity you call a skull.

You won't give credit for 147 unless he beats Cotto, or whatever your nonsensical argument is.

Oh, and for the record, Cotto will be the 12th World Champ Pac has fought (he has beaten 10 so far).

Wow, that was easy. Now go formulate another stupid angle to attack Pacquiao's resume, because this one is officially dead. :hi:
Click to expand...

:happy This guy knows his boxing history..

kalunya5964 · Nov 3, 2009

pugilistspecialist said: ↑

This content is protected
......Oh I forgot Pacquiao is God and dare anyone do anything but suck his dick, yall can have that....Every fighter before him that was considered pound for pound the best in the sport had to go through the same thing....Mayweaher, Jones, Hopkins, Whitaker, AND Sugar Ray Leonard.....I
This content is protected
:nut
Click to expand...

This one is full of hatred and it has little difference with your original post.

kalunya5964 · Nov 3, 2009

pugilistspecialist said: ↑

He still didnt fight the best at 122 and 135 bottom line you cant dispute it....David Diaz was barely top 5...he beat a washed up Barrera and Morales so what the difference when you have to consider Casamayor was the Ring Champion, Juan Diaz was a young undefeated 2 belt titlist, and Nate Campbell was better than Diaz too get of Pac-Mans dick man.....DLH shouldnt even have been in a ring. You *******S ARE RIDICULOUS
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You're acting like stupid because of your ignorance. Ledwaba was the best at 122 when Pac fought him. Ayala and Tapia had already moved to 126 at that time and Larios and Vasquez became champions 2-3 years later. David Diaz was #3 LW when he fought Pac, behind only after Juan Diaz and Casamayor but Casa had "lost" earlier to Santa Cruz who was dethroned by David Diaz. David is not a bad fight afterall. Campbell was a nobody at that time, his only claim to fame was his comical losses to Peden. You're calling *******s ridiculous but no one can be more ridiculous than you!

kalunya5964 · Nov 3, 2009

pugilistspecialist said: ↑

Im a hater cuz I dont suck Pac-Mans dick like you....this is exactly why I dont come on here because of idiots like you who dont read a post before making a damn comment. Im a fan of boxing, not a fan boy like you....I like Pacquaio but you dudes really pump him up too much......

Mayweather does have a better resume.....He dominated his first division(which Pac-Man has never done)atsch and will do down as top 3 at junior-lightweight...descisively defeated his closest rival and closest fights with Castillo(which Pac-Man aint done what up Marquezatsch), has defeated 12 world champions(more than pacquiao)atsch one current and at least 4-5 future hall of famers(more than Pac-Man)atsch.....and has stayed undefeated in the process.:good

How is his resume better.....all of Floyd's best wins were over prime champions whereas Pac-Man fought all washed up greats for his best wins...how impressive!!!!
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Dude, In your opinion Barrera was already washed up when Pac fought him. Why don't you check his (MAB) records for your own appreciation. Barrera was on a 8 or 9 winning streak before Pac and won six straights after Pac against such fighters as Ayala, Morales, Fana, Peden and Morales. Such a washed up fighter MAB was, don't you think so?

Simple100 · Nov 3, 2009

pugilistspecialist said: ↑

112-is debatable here

Paulie Ayala was the best at 122, Ring Magazine Champion, 1999 fighter of the year and 2 wins over future HOFer Johnny Tapia im sure you know that so no....Ledwaba was a very good fighter top5 but he wasnt the best...At the time Vazquez and Larios were ranked higher...he didnt fight the best at the weight

He hasnt fought Cotto yet, he only fought one fight and that is DLH....further more Floyd Mayweather is the best at 147, he was the undefeated lineal champ and has comeback....Cotto and Mosley are the top 2 contenders outside Mayweather. For him to fight the best at 147 he has to beat Mayweather and no one else.
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So whats your point do you think paulie ayala will beat PAC at 122lbs?
for God sake although PAC is limited in terms of skill at that div he had so much power which can turn the fight in single punch. also team larios was not interested to fight pac. belive me PAC is monster in terms of strenght at 122lbs.

Simple100 · Nov 3, 2009

kalunya5964 said: ↑

You're acting like stupid because of your ignorance. Ledwaba was the best at 122 when Pac fought him. Ayala and Tapia had already moved to 126 at that time and Larios and Vasquez became champions 2-3 years later. David Diaz was #3 LW when he fought Pac, behind only after Juan Diaz and Casamayor but Casa had "lost" earlier to Santa Cruz who was dethroned by David Diaz. David is not a bad fight afterall. Campbell was a nobody at that time, his only claim to fame was his comical losses to Peden. You're calling *******s ridiculous but no one can be more ridiculous than you!
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:good

kalunya5964 · Nov 3, 2009

ybfake said: ↑

You are %100 correct. But you will never get a ******* to understand that while good his resume is overrated big time. I have seen this scenario time and time again. One fighter is seen as being on a hot streak because he looks great do to perfect match making. The other fighter is seen to be on the slide because he has had tough fights with the elite of his division. But when the two meet its a one sided fight in favor of the guy who has been fighting the best. Judah said it right yesterday on talk radio. "Cotto gonna give Pac something he ain't never seen before".
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100% correct when his data were distorted to suit his opinion?

kirk · Nov 3, 2009

for the most part YES.

scatterbrain · Nov 3, 2009

kirk said: ↑

for the most part YES.
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:good

regardless of condition,

the thought of pac fighting cotto as recently as 18 months ago were met by comments of MURDER murder. :rofl

pac has balls to say the least.

PanchoVilla · Nov 3, 2009

Sweet Pea Pacquiao said: ↑

Time to get owned. From your statements it's clear you didn't watch boxing at the time, or if you did, only watched Roy Jones fight subpar competition at that stage in his career when after moving up to 175 to fight Griffin and Hill got too comfortable taking HBO's money and fighting guys with great records but no real substance. Oh, and so you can go draw a timeline, that's 1998-2003 (until he fought Ruiz at heavy, a true challenge). I'll estimate you were about 11-12 years old at the time. Go get a crayon.

To show you a parallel and how time works, Pacquiao was 19 years old when he fought at 112 in 1998, the same year Jones fought Virgil Hill in what should've been the prime of Roy's career. He defeated Sasakul, who the LINEAR champion and held a win over Yuri Arbachakov, who was arguably the #1 or #2 flyweight in the world based on Ring Magazine. For you to imply that Sasakul was a bum says it all. At flyweight he fought the best available.

Then three years later in JUNE 2001 he moved up to 122 and in his first fight in America, destroyed IBF champ Lehlo Ledwaba, who had reached a peak of #6 at one point in USA Today's Super Six P4P list (Dan Rafael's old newspaper before he moved on to ESPN) and was consensus Top 15.

Here's where you get exposed like the idiot you are. You say Vazquez was rated higher than Ledwaba so Pac avoided him.

BUT at the time Pac KO'd him, LL had defended his belt FIVE TIMES, and VAZQUEZ hadn't even fought for a world title yet!!! And yet you argue he was rated higher than Ledwaba? Israel is a hell of a fighter and person, but at the time he was an unknown...and get this...PACQUIAO'S SPARMATE FOR LEDWABA. How do I know this? Because I SAW THEM SPAR AT THE WILD CARD DURING THAT TIME!!! :rofl

I'm not done with you yet. You bring up Ayala, which seems on the surface to be a valid argument, but again, you probably weren't really watching boxing at the time, so it's ok. Ayala had fought at 118 and a catchweight ABOVE 122 when he fought Tapia twice. Talks had begun with Pacquiao's handler, Murad Muhammad in 2001, but instead of fighting Manny immediately after his first fight with Bones Adams, which was proposed, Ayala CHOSE to give Adams a rematch instead because he had only won by SD.

Then by the time Ayala was done, did he pursue the Pac fight? NO, he moved up to fight Erik Morales instead for more money and the WBC featherweight title, which again, if you ever followed boxing, would understand that Pac was still an unknown compared to Morales who had a huge following and was P4P by then.

Meanwhile, Manny stayed at 122 and tried to unify with Agapito Sanchez's WBO belt, arguably the #2 super bantam at the time. So fighting Ledwaba and Sanchez constituted fighting the best available. Larios was the other option and there is one fighter I can say no serious talks ever had been made. But they ended up fighting anyway albeit later.

Then for you to say he didn't fight the best at 126 or 130 because they were past prime, you're a moron. Barrera was the champ by virtue of beating Hamed, and he lost. He was the BEST FEATHERWEIGHT in the world at the time. Oh yeah, Barrera won 2 belts at 130 AFTER getting destroyed by Pac, so there goes your "washed up" argument. And unlike RJJ never fighting Daruisz Michalczewski, the only challenge left at 175 aside from Tarver, Pac fought Marquez and even gave him a second chance at 130. More than I can say for Roy. Then throw in HOF Morales, whom he split the first 2 with and fought the third (the third is the only fight I feel he was truly shot) because Morales had shown him the respect to give Manny a rematch after the first fight. He didn't fight the best at 126-130? STFU.

I don't think anyone on this board would argue that he fought the best at 135. I sure don't. But if you're gonna sit here and tell me he was unjustified in fighting Oscar De La Hoya for the biggest payday of his career while still having the burden of moving up TWELVE POUNDS and TWO WEIGHT CLASSES.

140 you at least acknowledged Pac fighting the best, but you only did that because you wanted to look half-******ed, and not expose the fully empty cavity you call a skull.

You won't give credit for 147 unless he beats Cotto, or whatever your nonsensical argument is.

Oh, and for the record, Cotto will be the 12th World Champ Pac has fought (he has beaten 10 so far).

Wow, that was easy. Now go formulate another stupid angle to attack Pacquiao's resume, because this one is officially dead. :hi:
Click to expand...

excellent points, very nice read m8.

Farmboxer · Nov 3, 2009

I think the fight with Cotto is impressive. Cotto is bigger and good fighter. If Pac beats Cotto I will be very impressed.

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