How many fighters would blow Frazier out?

What's all this about Frazier not having a great chin? It's not like he's ever been knocked OUT, I wouldn't even say his chin was " unreliable ", Frazier was continuously getting back up everytime Foreman knocked him down. And Foreman is considered one of the hardest punchers in the division's history, not to mention the advantage in size he has over him. Some of you are talking about Frazier like he's Ken Norton.

 

Foreman, Tyson, perhaps Liston or Lewis would have a good chance. That's probably it.

Outside of those guys not too many others it has to be said, Frazier was a true great and not many had superior fighting guts and heart.

 

Who picked 9 or more? :nut

 

Yeah, that was a complete joke. Shavers loses 10 out of 10 to Frazier, all by knockout in the first rounds.

 

In chronological order, here are the fighters I think could potentially carry it off.

All of these pairings are assumed to be with the three KD rule waived (unlike Frazier's first war with Bonavena, where Ringo came within one deck of derailing him).

Jim Jeffries. Like Foreman, Jeff would push Smoke out into his own punching range. However, the match would then become an exchange of hooks, moreso than straight punches from long-range. The Boilermaker could be a fast starter when he chose to be, but whether or not he'd choose to go for a quick win or war of attrition is a question that I can't answer with any confidence. The possibilty is there for a quick stoppage. Of course, the only way to drop Joe for the count would be to render him unconscious. As is true for Patterson, nobody was ever able to completely switch out the lights on Joe, and unlike Floyd, Joe always beat the count comfortably.

Jack Dempsey. The Mauler had 21 first round kayos (probably more as Kid Blackie), and if he landed a rocket launcher like the uppercut off the ropes he blasted out Firpo with, Joe would get up, but have a difficult time recovering against Dempsey's follow-up barrage, even with the neutral corner rule honored. Jack didn't like fighting tall however, and Joe might be able to smother Dempsey's punches in close, as Tommy Gibbons did. Jack would be much more likely to outmaneuver Joe laterally however, so this would be a tricky proposition for Frazier.

Joe Louis. Smoke has ranked him as the top HW of all time. The Bomber had better take Smoke out quickly though. If he lets Frazier off the hook when hurt early, as he did Pastor and Galento in their title challenges, then Louis would be in for a long nasty battle. By his own admission, Louis didn't like to be crowded, and Smoke closed a lot more quickly, used a lot more upper body movement than Godoy, and was far more active in letting his fists fly, once he got inside. Head-to-head, I believe peak Frazier would have decisioned peak Louis. But the Bomber has the capacity to stun and stop Smoke from getting out of the starting gate. In the Godoy rematch, Louis displayed the punching style he'd need to get Frazier out early. The version of Louis who took Arturo out would naturally be the one most suited for both Frazier and Marciano.

Rocky Marciano. Smoke rated him as the HW runner-up to Louis. The Blockbuster had a large number of one round kayos, usually due to the result of a single punch. Frazier might be able to escape the early rounds by gluing himself to Rocky as Rex Layne did. If he could succeed in forcing Marciano into retreat, so much the better, but at least by not giving Rocky any room, Smoke could smother his punches until he was into the swing of things. Whenever Marciano had some room, Joe would need to bob and weave, more rapidly and incessantly than usual, if at all possible.

Ingemar Johansson. Ingo's not an ATG, and doesn't belong in the IBHOF. But he did blow out a contender who later lasted 12 rounds with a peak Liston, and ten rounds with a peak Frazier. If he hurt Joe early, like he did Patterson, it's Johansson-Patterson I all over again. Like Floyd, Smoke would keep getting back up, only to get dropped again, over and over, until it had to be stopped (as did happen when Joe lost the title himself).

Sonny Liston. If Liston bombed out Frazier early, it wouldn't likely be in the first round, but would more closely resemble Sonny's two wins over Big Cat. Patterson did just enough to show that Joe's bob and weave might give Liston a difficult target. Joe would need to slip inside Sonny's jab. If he could neutralize Liston's long left, he might escape the early rounds. Joe's hook was shorter and faster than Sonny's and could hold him in good stead through the beginning of the match.

George Foreman. This would have been a very difficult matchup for FOTC Frazier, simply because George would have been able to control him physically. The great irony of their rematch is that Frazier may have lasted into the fifth round precisely because he was a shot fighter, not in spite of it. (This is also why a past peak Ali was able to take out Frazier, Bonavena, and Foreman where a peak Ali would have probably settled for a points win, and also why Charlie Goldman stated that peak Louis wouldn't have lasted as long against Marciano as the shopworn version did.) If FOTC Frazier tried using the same tactics against Foreman that he attempted in their rematch, he might last long enough for George to wear down, but what are the chances that peak Frazier would even consider that strategy in a first-time matchup? Given that, it's a bad physical matchup for Smoke.

Mike Tyson. I have strenuously made the case for a Frazier victory against Tyson elsewhere on this forum, but in all candor, Mike could catch Joe early with the same sort of uppercut he took Marvis out with. It's not lost on me that Joe was a training partner with his son, and may have imparted the same advice that he would have chosen to apply to himself against the same opponent, in the same situation. But with Eddie Futch in Joe's corner, it could well be a different game, and I base much of my case for a Frazier win over Mike on Futch's involvement.

Earnie Shavers. 23 first round kayos, 18 second round stoppages, and nine third round outages. Quarry and Ellis proved that Earnie could be hurt and stopped early, if he was swarmed immediately. Joe would need to take that page out of Jerry's playbook. Earnie flattened Ellis after a clinch caused the referee to have to separate them. Then, Earnie had the breathing room he needed for the uppercut which won it. The fact that Joe was a clean fighter, with an adversion to clinching, plays tremendously in his favor here. If he can hurt Earnie, and pin him in a corner to work him over as Ellis and Quarry did, without allowing Earnie to clinch and force the referee to separate them, Joe can get the fight stopped in his favor. But if Earnie hits Joe with the same shot he took out Ellis with, Smoke may have a difficult time clearing his head before the referee stops the match.

Ron Lyle. Leroy Caldwell has said that the punching power of Lyle and Foreman was about equal, and Foreman has stated that Ron hit him the hardest of any of his opponents. If Lyle's concussive force was indeed comparable to George's, then the version of Ron who dropped George twice could give Frazier early hell. Ron had much better footwork than Foreman, and was an excellent counterpuncher off the ropes, actually kayoing Earnie Shavers by setting him up with that tactic in their legendary war. If Ron planned to try bombing out Joe early, he could use his mobility to establish punching room, or sucker Joe into a opening from the ropes.

Muhammad Ali. The fact is that in round two of their middle fight, Ali nearly pulled off this trick. Tony Perez wrongly halted the action as Muhammad was pounding Joe towards the ropes. Perez's mistaken interference may have preserved the rivalry (and helped line the pockets of both Ali and Frazier in Manila), but the fact remains that a competent referee wouldn't have stepped in to break things up. On the basis of that second round action, I submit Ali's name, as he was a great finisher for his style of boxing. (If Ali had Smoke hurt as badly as Bonavena did in the second round of Joe's first match with Ringo, Ali would have finished the job, even with the three KD rule waived, an inexcusable failure on Oscar's part.)

 

How in the hell do you know? I mean, I'd pick Frazier to dust Earnie as well, but the hardest hitter of all time would always have a puncher's chance, and a good one at that. My guess is Joe would stop him in maybe 3 or 4 rounds, but the same thing could easily happen the other way.

 

With Frazier's steamroller style the only way for Shavers to win is with one punch, and I don't care how hard Shavers hits no way he is taking out Frazier with one punch.:good

 

Frazier had a solid chin, remember he got up 6 times against Foreman, had they let it go another 3 rounds either Joe would have died or Foreman would have gotten tired but Frazier around the time of the first Foreman fight was already not able to get in top form.

 

As I said before,

I'd pick Frazier by a wide margin to win this one, and rightfully so. But to say that he'd hands down destroy Shavers 10 out of 10 times, and early each time out, without a chance, is ignorant in my opinion. Any puncher can beat any puncher, and to not give Earnie a puncher's chance, when afterall, Frazier was decimated by another big right hander, is just plain wrong.

 

The Bowe who fought Holyfield would stop Frazier. Frazier didn't have bad chin but if he got hit with the shots Holyfield took in the 10th he would be knocked out.

 

I agree with this list

 

Of the champions,if things went right for them,Foreman,Liston, Louis,Tyson and Lewis seem like possibilities.Non champions, a guy like Mac Foster seems like another one.You have to have size,a good chin and to be able to really hit,if you don't have all three,it ain't gonna happen against Joe.

 

Foreman obviously, louis dempsey shavers tyson all have a punchers chance but it doesnt mean theyre gonna connect and some of em have dubious chins too so chances are theyd get ko'd first.

 

So? Foreman beat him not only because of power, but also because or a long reach, imposing height and physical strength. Shavers was not physically stronger than frazier, he was not bigger than Frazier, and he did not have a huge reach advantage. Shavers cannot win here.:good

 

Foreman is the only one. Liston and Tyson are 50/50. That Foreman would blow a lot of heavies away (especially swarmers) like he did to Frazier and Norton.