Can Haye become an ATG by beating Vitali AND Wladmir

No

 

No, actually I do understand the thread. My subtle point is just not clear enough to you. Haye beating the Klitschkos wouldn't be the same as beating a prime Louis, Ali, Lewis, Holyfield, Tyson, etc. It would be a great accomplishment for the ex-cruiserweight champ though. Nevertheless, the division sucks so in this instance the accomplishment is commensurate with the level of competition. It would be a fine win as it would be over two huge and decently conditioned big men. But, it wouldn't be over the greatest large-sized athletic talent possible on the planet - merely the best pursuing boxing today. It would undoubtedly make Haye a great for this era (as they are considered and proven to be the best in an unequivocally horrible and weak heavyweight division).


As for the knockdown I don't buy that fiction at all. I've slowed it down a dozen times and Vit got DROPPED. That wasn't a one shot event that was a sequence of clean punches culminating in Vit falling. The ref missed the call.

 

Well phrase your "subtle point" better and make the rest of your answer less dull and wrong, then it might actually be heeded

 

Doofus, learn to read or STFU. I can't hold your hand idiot. I don't make posts worrying if YOU can comprehend it. Got that?

 

No, because he will be KTFO by both...

 

If he was to beat them both in the next 2 years, before either of them has a fight where they show serious decline. If he was to beat them properly, by a beatdown KO or a clear points decision. (i.e. not if Vitali's shoulder pops again)

Yeah he would have to be considered. Both Wlad and Vitali tend to be in the top 30 of people's ATG heavy lists. Beating both of them before they are shot would be a great accomplishment.

The point that needs to be repeated here (and again and again) is that Haye simply wasn't a great at cruiser.

He had 2 title fights at cruiser.

He could possibly get away with being called a great cruiser if those 2 title fights had been against awesome opponents. But they weren't.

"Undipsuted cruiser champion" sounds so impressive.
"Guy who won two title fights against decent opposition in a very weak division" sounds pretty run of the mill.

Do we consider Buster Douglas an ATG for being undisputed heavyweight champion? No, you have to take the whole picture into consideration.

 

:good

 

How can Haye be an ATG by beating either of the Klitschko's when 100% of those Haye nuthuggers don't even consider either of the Klitschko's an ATG and most consider it to be a weak division. atsch

 

Tough one. Hell of an achievement if he managed to pull it off. BUT, Haye might be the type of fighter to lose to someone you'd least expect, some unknown or guy everyone thought was past it. You can't really be an ATG by beating two fighters, and not defending against mandatories for a few years when you have little motivation but still manage to win convincingly. That's what really makes a legacy.

 

...Uh, if he actually did beat the other two champions in the division, that would seem pretty dominant...

 

Haye has been hampered by not having a great promoter keeping him active....when I say great promoter I dont mean Frank Warren who is an absolute FRAUD. He would hhave had a career like Calzfagis defending against bums 99%. If he went with an Arum earlier etc or Golden Boy

 

No way. He hasnt fought enough to be called a great. He will be considered as a top top fight but great?? No Im afraid. The word 'great' is used far to often.

 

His whole ethos is do it quickly and in as few fights as possible.

He's quite unique in that aspect when you think about it

 

David Haye run away from both Klitschkos. He obviously doesn´t want to fight everybody in front of him. The klits do so. He will fail vs. either Klitschko, so the question if Haye is an ATG will never occur.

HAye is the typical british hype job who will get exposed vs. either Klit in brutal fashion. He is good but Povetkin, Chagaev, Solis or Chambers are on the same level with Haye. The Klits are one league above them all. That is the pure reality.

HAye deserved a close decision vs. Valuev. But look how many fighter beat Valuev already: a shot Larry Donald, a shot John Ruiz, a completely shot Holyfield, Chagaev beat him clearer than Haye....

 

of course you can. dominating your division for long enough could give you ATG status. what you are saying would mean, assuming there are no ATGs fighting now*, there will never again be an ATG heavyweight

^ this assuming holyfield at 47 doesn't count