Old George Foreman vs Nikolai Valuev

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by young griffo, Nov 9, 2009.

  1. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    The insults aren't really needed for sure. I can certainly see your point of view but I don't think Foreman landed well at all on Morrison. Morrison may not have been a defensive specialist but for whatever reason he almost looked like one against the much slower, plodding Big George.

    [ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8adGABRgfSg[/ame]

    Of course one could make the case that Morrison regularly turning his back on Foreman was illegal and should have been penalized.
     
  2. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Foreman didn't get as much leverage as he was younger -- by his own admission the biggest change from before to then was his balance -- and he didn't have the handspeed, footspeed to really be in a position to land flush. He never hit anyone as solidly as he hit Norton or Frazier when he was younger.

    Speaking of pure one-shot you-stand-there-without-ducking-and-I'll-hit-you power, I think Old George hit harder than Young George.

    In my opinion, the problem was that when he landed, he was frequently arm-punching and reaching to get to his opponent, as opposed to being balanced and delivering his power up to his full potential.
     
  3. Genesis

    Genesis Undisputed Full Member

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    Powerpuncher.

    How would an old Foreman look as small as Haye in with Valuev?

    Haye 218, Foreman 250+. They are near the same height, but Foreman is far stronger and robust than Haye. Foreman could trade with Valuev, because of his strength, Haye could not. The left hook that Foreman took against Gerry Cooney KO's Haye.

    Earlier Chrispontius claimed that HAYE WOULD NOT GO 12 ROUNDS WITH "GLASS CHIN" TOMMY MORRISON. Well, how come "glass chin" Haye went 12 with Valuev? Because like Morrison he ran, and Morrsion is a brawler. Morrison had a better chin than Haye anyway, he was KO'd by Mercer, Bentt and Lewis, genuine Heavyweights who if they landed would KO Haye. Haye has only a few Heavyweight contests.

    Haye is a faster puncher, but Foreman hit harder. If Haye could have Valuev doing the chicken dance in round 12, then Foreman could probably have him doing it in round one. Foreman ain't running from Valuev.
     
  4. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Foreman was crap against Morrison, just as he was against Young 16 years earlier. Worse though.

    In fact if it wasn't for the Young fight I'd assume Foreman was carrying Morrison, that's how lame he fought. Even when Morrison's back was against the ropes - in fact especially when Morrison's back was against the ropes - Foreman just stood there and stared at him. And that's what he did for much or the Young fight too.

    I feel Foreman's ability in his comeback petered out after the Holyfield and Stewart fights. People get fooled by the Moorer win, but in a way Foreman's campaign was already over by then - that's what makes it even more of a "miracle comeback", he was actually comebacking for the second or third time in his second career, plus he came from behind to win.
    Foreman looked a lot more purposeful in 1990 against Rodrigues and Cooney.
     
  5. TheGreatA

    TheGreatA Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Foreman always remarked that he didn't feel like going after people who were "running" from him, not at 44 years of age and without any title on the line.

    I thought he had two pretty good performances against Briggs and Savarese much later on and he did knock out Pierre Coetzer in fairly impressive fashion before fighting Morrison, but he had some bad performances as well. I guess that's to be expected when you're in your mid 40's fighting 20 year olds.
     
  6. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven VIP Member banned Full Member

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    Yeah, I guess I think he was slightly better when he was fighting on the frequent schedule he was doing before the Holyfield fight.
     
  7. lefthook31

    lefthook31 Obsessed with Boxing banned

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    I was never sold on the Foreman comeback either. He could make the better fighters look bad that tried to stand in and knock him out, which wasnt going to happen, but overall he was just old and slow.
    I thought his best overall performance was his win over Lou Savarese. Very entertaining fight and old George outworked and outfought Savarese who was pretty limited in his own right, but overall a nice performance for a man his age, and really his most impressive if you havent seen it.
     
  8. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    Foreman threw much straighter shots and didn't land anywhere near cleanly enough on Morrison with one of his bombs. Moorer may be glass chinned but it was essentially a 1-2 that knocked him out. You can't say that about a lot of his KO defeats. People were just talking about how Haye might not have legit HW power. Now we know (I always figured he did). Old Foreman hit much harder though. If you want to argue that Haye is a sharper puncher because of his speed and accuracy that is one thing. Arguing that he hit harder is ludicrous. Old Foreman hit just about as hard as young Foreman, he just didn't have the ability to corner guys nor did he throw bombs out so early because he was weary of his stamina.

    Check out his KO's over Moorer and Cooney to see something in impressive fashion.
     
  9. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Why is it ludicrous? For Christ sake, the most horrible fighters ALL went the distance with him, including Tommy "Michael Bent stopped me in 1" Morrison.
     
  10. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    I have a feeling Valuev hits harder than Holyfield, I think he hits as hard as Lyle
     
  11. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    How about because just because you have a murderous punch that doesn't get their or find its mark because of your speed doesn't mean you've lost your power. Holyfield said the hardest punch he had ever been hit with was from Foreman. Haye's power at HW was questioned before his last fight. Foreman is arguably the hardest hitting HW of all time and power is the last thing to go. That's how you know Foreman is underrated when one of the most reputable posters thinks Haye hits harder than Foreman.

    No way does a 1-2 from Haye KTFO Moorer. No way.
     
  12. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Talking about only losses is silly, otherwise Wlad is 'Corrie Sanders stopped me in 2' and Haye is 'Thompson stopped me in 4'

    Morrison had speed, could throw combinations, and big power too. He might well KO Haye who looks fragile himself.

    I don't think Valuev is anyones easy fight and I think Old Foreman gets overrated
     
  13. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Power is overrated though, you need to land your punches, would Foreman, probably but not as easily as they ounger faster Haye, Valuev when he has a man standing in front of him and not trying to get in and out will also show great power imo
     
  14. PetethePrince

    PetethePrince Slick & Redheaded Full Member

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    I agree. But Valuev is there to be hit no doubt, and is arguably as slow (At least on his foot he's probably slower). So in a matchup like this, I think a durable, strong, and much harder hitting Foreman find his marks. Nobody is turning their back or running away.

    The point only came up when Chris thought Haye had more power. Really silly to me, but I guess it isn't for others.
     
  15. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    He is there to be hit but his reach/height give a defensive advantage and may let him land first. Plus Valuev has a decent guard

    The talk of Haye staggering Valuev is a little unfair because it was in the final round when Valuev was tired from chasing Haye for 12rounds. If the same punch hit him early it wouldnt have the same affect. Early on Valuev was walking Haye down and Haye hit him with no effect, haye said hitting his head was like hitting a wall

    So Valuev may take Foreman's power early, its uncertain to me, I have picked Foreman but Valuev makes him look like a child and actually pushes George around in this 1 so I don't think I'd put money on the outcome