why do people put duran ahead of pac on atg list???

:good

 

Horribly flawed criteria. I take it you rank Marco Antonio Barrera above Roberto Duran too?

 

:good

 

Lightweight:

Hiroshi Kobayashi (Slightly past prime)
Ernesto Marcel (Future conquerer of the late great Alexis Arguello)
Prime Ken Buchanan
Esteban De Jesus x2 (Pretty much primed on both occassions)

Welterweight: (Bare in mind from here on we are past his best weight)

Carlos Palamino (Close to prime, pushed Wilfred Benitez very close 5 months previous)
Prime Sugar Ray Leonard (You don't need telling a top 20 ATG and top 5 ATG welterweight)

Light-Middle

Pipino Cuevas (Slightly past prime)
Davey Moore (Primed, not great but beat Ayub Kalule, one of Leonard's better wins)

Middleweight (Bare in mind we are now talking about past-prime Duran, and now 25lbs above his best weight)

Pushes a prime Marvin Hagler very close (Hagler obviously a top 35 ATG, and a top 4 MW)
Beats prime Iran Barkley (Just beat Hearns, even directly afterwards took a prime Michael Nunn to a MD)

Longetivity - Produced excellent wins from 1972 to 1989, across 3 different weight classes and a 25lb disparity

H2H - Brutal offensively and excellent defensively, ranks up there with the best at LW and would beat many a good WW

 

Heard of them, yeah...

They aren't on the same level, historically, or in terms of relevance as the 80's version of the Fantastic Four.

 

Nice. When you factor into account the fact that Duran beat a whole hell of a lot of solid contenders to go along with those names (Saoul Mamby, Hector Thompson, Guts Ishimatsu, Vilomar Fernandez, Ray Lampkin, Edwin Viruet at lightweight/ jr. welterweight just for starters, all the way up to Jorge Castro at middleweight when he was long past his physical prime), his resume looks pretty damned good.

Pac might be able to get there, if he keeps fighting top shelf talent. But he's not there yet.

 

That's a nice summary. It isn't going to change a couple of Pac fanatics minds, but a nice summary anyway. Obviously while Ali was losing to Spinks at 37, Duran's win over Barkley appears to be meaningless to some on this board. Let's see if Pac is even fighting at 38, nevermind beating middleweights. Hell I'd settle for a 38 year old Pac still being able to beat wweights.

 

how can u compare duran to pac??? foolishness....

 

He beat the conquerer of Arguello and Hearns, but he didn't beat Hearns when he did fight Hearns. And he never fought Arguello. Beating someone who beat a great is not really that impressive. Sometimes guys have a good style matchup, yet then never beat another great fighter like Barkley against Hearns. You have beat a great to be great. Not beat a guy who beat a guy who beat that great. If that was the criteria, every fighter would be great. Cuevas was not a big contender when Duran fought him. Pushing Hagler to the limit he still didn't beat him, and other guys gave Hagler good fights, doesn't boost their ranking. And Barkley lost to Kalambay,Nunn and Benn in the same time period Duran beat him. What you are describing is more like top 25 than top 10. He lacks the great wins against an ATG.. He should have beaten Hearns and Benitez at 154 and that might have done it. But he didn't . How can you warrant top 10.. This is what I am about. If you are saying these points to say he was great he was, but to be top 10 he has to beat the ATG's like Hearns and Hagler and Benitez regardless of excuses. If Kessler makes an excuse about losing to Ward last night and said he was out of shape, would it matter?

 

duran beat SRL and made it to 168

Calling pac a 106 lb fighter is very misleading. You could call him a 122 lb guy when factoring in thats what he was at adulthood and other guys like PBF would have been under 120 if they started pro at 16.

 

Nailed down.

The sole reason that boxing means what it does to me was a shitty old VHS of "The Best of Roberto Duran" I was given as a young kid.

The man is a living legend.

 

For 18 months people have been trying to help mag see the greatness of duran, hopefully one day he'll get it!