david Tua vs G.Foreman(young or old) who wins

I don't think Lyle was a behemoth at all. I've seen plenty of his fights and just think he's better than Tua. I've seen enough of Tua. As much as I could bear because most of his **** was uninspired and unwatchable.

 

You don't have to make the Hall of Fame to be a good fighter. And where did I say Ike or Tua was great? Whatever great means.

And I'd pick Ike to beat the living **** out of Ingo Johannson and Ken Norton, for what it's worth.

 

Tua has a much better resume. He KO'd 3 world heavyweight champs, none that far removed from their primes. Lyle was purely a b level or possibly worse fighter. Again I ask, who was the 2nd best fighter he ko'd? And how many others ko'd the best fighter the he himself ko'd?

 

Tua would get Lyle late. I'd bet the house on it.

Basically, you need to watch Tua pre Ike. The guy was impressive, really. Punches in bunches, not easy to tag cleanly and even if you did land it was on a granite chin, ATG power with tremendous late round power (as shown against Maskaev, Ike, Izon etc.)

He basically lost the fire once he lost to Ike, becaming your typical HW just plodding straight ahead looking for the one punch to end it. The fact that he was still successful post Ike says a lot about his power and durability.

 

This would be relevant if we were asking who deserves to be ranked higher or who has the better legacy.

No one is saying Tua is a top ten HW. I myself have already picked Foreman here, but Tua is a nightmare for more than a few ATG's. Denying this is simply nonsense.

 

The fact remains that Foreman, in his career, had long gaps of proven vulnerability to fighters who had much less ability than Tua. By definition, Tua has a good if not great chance against Foreman within these gaps.

Those who chose- in willful ignorance- not to acknowledge Foreman's extensive and frequent periods of weakness are intellectually dishonest.

 

Of course it's relevant. Who others beat, and how they engage with other styles is how mythical matchmaking becomes anything more than just random hearsay. Denying this is nonsense. :good

 

I'm not saying it's untrue. I just don't see how Chris can say it with certainty.

 

So could be Dempsey's, Marciano's, Liston's, Shaver's,....

 

Well their raw power in some cases might be overrated too but it's Foreman's power that is so often attributed legendary status. Shavers too but he's not part of this debate.

I don't see any version of Foreman hitting Tua with enough clean shots to have a hope of knocking him out. Lewis hit Tua with numerous 3 punch combos (left jab, right cross, left hook) and whilst Tua didn't like the power he could take the shots. The 1st version of Foreman was so reckless that he has the better chance to beat Tua simply by overwhelming him but he leaves himself open to be stopped by Tua, be it via exhaustion or otherwise. Tua could outpoint the older version, assuming he didn't go into his shell after tasting Foreman's power, of course.

 

Foreman's win against Ken Norton, is better than Tua's wins against Ruiz, Rahman or Maskaev, let alone his win over Frazier. Foreman also beat Chuvalo, who i believe is better than Tua's win against Ruiz, who was a nobody at the time Tua fought him, while Chuvalo had title shots prior to fighting George.

 

The Foreman of 1973-1974 beats Tua.

The Foreman that danced and jabbed Chuvalo is a bad style match-up for Tua. At least George showed in his youth he could also box. Tua was/is more one-dimentional.

Plus Foreman had a better win at 45 than Tua had his whole career.

 

Any version of Tua has a really good shot at old Foreman. Tua in shape has a good shot against young Foreman, but no lock. Out of shape fat Tua gets his arse handed to him by young Foreman.

 

The real legendary status lies on Shavers' power. Maybe it's not part of this debate, but it could help ranking Foreman's power.

Foreman hit a moving Frazier good enough to floor him. Imagine how he'd land his bombs on a stiff Tua.

 

We can only go by what we've seen. What have we seen?

Foreman needs to club his opponents down, knock them into submission via several knockdowns until there is no more. Tua? He needs a few punches to completely destroy his opponent. I think it's pretty clear Tua hits harder. Whether he's the more effective puncher is a whole different story, of course.