What makes an IRON CHIN?-A Physiological analysis

"He'd rather fight than eat."-Ray Arcel, about the young Duran. In contrast to many boxers, Roberto seemed to actually enjoy getting hit, and psyching out his opponents by coming on even stronger in response. Over time, this unflinching reaction enhanced his ability to see punches coming and evade accordingly.

In direct contrast to this was Jimmy "I don't like to get hit!" Young. Despite his mentality, Jimmy took a hard shot well when he was hit, both to the body and the head. Cooney's hooks downstairs had no effect on him, and he withstood head shots from Shavers (in the rematch), Lyle and Foreman. Gene Tunney didn't share Young's aversion to getting hit. In contrast to Young's negative orientation, Gene enjoyed making an opponent miss, like Corbett. He got his kicks by frustrating his attackers.

Tex Cobb would be an interesting study. He was one of several boxing pros who submitted to a brain scan, and remarkably was the only one who showed no signs of neurological damage. (This was after Holmes-Cobb.) Tex expected to get hit, and was mentally prepared for this certainty. His nervous responses and ability to feel pain were normal.

 

:think:think:think:think:think

 

And this was an exhaustion stoppage rather than anything else.

Yes, that was a very interesting study; I remember reading a paper about Tex's brain in particular. They expected to find considerable neurological damage, but in fact, after an intensive examination of his head with a whole battery of tests, they failed to find any neural tissue at all.

 

Isn't he supposed to be a college graduate and more educated than your average boxer?
I'm totally speculating here,but mayber leading a mentally active live may have shielded him from the effects of neurological damage(a case of use it or lose it)

BTW decent write up MexicanJew.
I thing the changeable factor is definitely lacking though. I need to think about that a but more,though.

 

Of course Robby failed to pace himself in the heat. If he came in at 157-1/2 for Maxim, managed to lose over seven pounds of body fluid during the course of those 13 completed rounds as reported, yet somehow was able to remain on his feet for six more minutes (just propped up in a corner, covering up), think about it. Ray might have had his hand raised as LHW Champion while weighing under the WW limit! (Bizarre realization, isn't it?) Even though Robinson boxed at a faster pace than necessary to win, it still surprises me a little that dehydration would catch up to him before Maxim. Joey was comfortably under the limit, but he had competed weighing as much as 190, while Robby had never been more than 162.

Thanks for corroborating that. What I read suggested that his oriental martial arts background and training might somehow be connected with this lack of damage, as he is supposed to have been conditioned to take punishment of this sort in a way western boxers generally aren't.

 

Fanastic work MJ. Enjoyed the read and it was very informative.

 

It's a valid question. Studies have indicated that academically accomplished college graduates enjoy lower incidences of dementia than physically active athletes who are less credentialed scholastically. LaMotta has been a writer and comedian. Archie Moore easily had the linguistic skills to be a college professor. Gene Tunney famously did become an Ivy League lecturer and successful businessman. Foreman and Holmes have made millions in retirement. Dempsey lost everything in the 1929 Crash, and recovered without having to return to competition. He also proved to be an excellent and explicit instructional author. Chuvalo is obviously articulate and intelligent, as anybody who's met him knows. Several excellent boxers have also been superb musicians.

What he wrote up is very well worth considering and expanding on, if we can add anything of value to it. MJ obviously put an awful lot of time and careful thought into it, and I have tremendous respect for his effort and willingness to share it with us. There's information there that young boxers might be able to use to enhance their own punch resistance.

 

How exactly would doing martial arts protect him? He trained as a kickboxer-but I could give you the examples of Pele Reid or Ray Sefo who achieved success in kickboxing,but could not take a good punch in the boxing ring.
Of course,Cobb seemed to have a heavy bone stricture and a very thick and large skull,which would have helped in taking a punch or a kick.

Also,if as the kurgan stated the doctor failed to 'find any neural tissue in his skull' this meant they failed to find a brain in his skull.
I thought he was joking. :?

 

There are exercises consisting of simply absorbing gradually harder impacts as one is able to absorb them without distress. Supposedly, this results in the thickening of bone and muscle, as well as an efficacious psychological resilience. (Recently, a program on one of the Discovery channels showed a martial artist getting kicked between the legs so hard that the impact lifted him off his feet, but without effect. Progressive training had inured him to this.)

Maybe he meant it as a joke, but I interpreted it to mean placqued tissue. A brainless man would hardly have been able to generate the sort of acting career he has.

By the way, Tex graduated magna cum laude from Temple University last year, at age 57, with a bachelor's degree in sport and recreation management. Interesting, that he continues to function at such a high level all these years later.

 

Yes, that was the joke.

Tex was indeed a smart guy (and a pretty fine actor too for someone from a non-thespian background) but he rarely seemed to think in the ring. They say Ken Norton sometimes fought in a trance, but I'd say that would be a better description of Tex Cobb, who fought with all the mindless relentlessness of a deadly virus.

Tex, of course, was one of the wittiest boxers of all time. "Larry Holmes's fists couldn't take another 15 rounds of punishment..."

 

Cobb actually had a good strategy for Holmes.

Reporter: "Tex, will you try to fight him on the inside?"

Cobb: "No, I'm going to stand on the outside and throw rocks!"

Later, when he had a fast paced PKA kickboxing match with Big John Jackson, it was Jackson who ironically prevailed on the strength of his punching technique, and this was a competitor noted for his ability to knock out heavyweights with his kicks. If kicking alone decided Jackson-Cobb though, Tex would have won. He looked far better as a kickboxer against Jackson than he did against Holmes, and was able to generate tremendous force with those 30" thighs. A mixed boxer versus kickboxer rematch with Holmes would have sold some tickets after Jackson-Cobb.

Jackson nailed Cobb coming in flush with some of his kicks, and even these didn't seem to faze Tex. If a kick like that couldn't even buckle him, what kind of punch would have been required to do it? (I also wonder about the legitimacy of the knockdowns he took against Gregg and Collier. I saw him go down against Gregg, and thought it looked staged at the time. His match with Sonny Barch was alleged to have been fixed.)

 

Solid work. I can add a bit or two. Good chins or the ability to take head shots in boxing comes in all shapes, sizes, and colors. I think heart and will power can add to a fighter's chin.

When I took martial arts, I noticed it was much easier to break or crack long thin cement block or wood. If the cement or wood was much more compact, and the same weight, breaking through was more difficult.

This leads me when taking a blow, compact is better than long and thin.

The fighters with big heads, big necks, and a study base who don't shy away usually take the best shots.

As a side note the human bone is 18X harder then cement.

 

Some really excellent posts here guys, particularly MJ & Duo.

JC Chavez is another fighter who seems to have a thicker bone structure and hence was able to absorb punisment more readily.

I definitely think strengthening the neck is a considerable factor but the notes on hydration are particularly revealing.

 

If you got a bomb straight on the temple you could suffer from aneurism and die. Even if you got the best chin on earth.

 

When taking a straight punch to the head:

1) The jaw muscles,neck muscles and the erector spinae muscles have to tensed so that the entire upper body becomes a single unit. The kinetic energy from a punch is then distributed through the entire upper body-rather than being channeled to the brain.

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2) Being heavily muscled in the thighs and hip also helps.From a balanced stance a relaxed, heavily heavily muscled hip-thigh structure can acts as a damper or shock absorber to dissipate the energy in the upper body,delivered from a punch.

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3) A fighter can also increase the amount of bone between the opponents fist and his brain,by tilting his skull at the point of impact,so that the punch is not 'dead on'.

The same principle is used in tanks-where sloping armour was developed to deflect the shells of enemy tanks.
(notice the increased effective thickness of the sloping armour)

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