Prime Foreman vs Holyfield

I think Lyle exposed flaws which were always there. You can't go through a whole career simply clubbing people to death without someone either getting wise to it, or clubbing you back just as hard. So it was with Foreman. He clubbed people to death, then Ali worked him out and showed he was mortal, then Lyle showed he was flawed and fair game, then Young showed yet another way to expose him, and then BOG (big overrated George) retired. A highly, highly flawed and beatable fighter just crying out to be outboxed by a heavyweight with speed, intelligence and toughness.

Nope. The comparison lies not with those fights, as I noted that Holyfield would fight differently to how Haye did. The comparison lies with the fact that you are saying Holyfield does not have the intelligence or discipline to avoid being knocked out by the clubbing fists of big George. This was exactly the same assertion being made by almost everyone regarding David Haye when he was up against Valuev. And David Haye managed to implement a plan totally alien to his natural mentality, and stick to it. And that's David ****ing Haye we are talking about. If that lump of meat can stick to a plan and box his way to victory, I think Evander Holyfield might just be capable of the same feat. As I have said numerous times on this thread, Holyfield is not Micky Ward. He is not a lemming. He is not an angry drunk in a pub carpark. He will not walk onto shots and get knocked out because he likes fighting. Holyfield was a cruiserweight who took on the biggest and the best the heavyweight division had to offer over a long period of time. And before he was shot, he was stopped only once, by a mountain of a man, who may not have had the power of Foreman but who was a considerably better fighter. Let us give Evander Holyfield the credit of having intelligence comparable to David Hayemaker Haye, shall we?

Holyfield was a tremendous bodypuncher. He showed this against the old George Foreman. Holyfield hit as hard at heavyweight as the mid 70s Muhammad Ali did. Would he fight 70s George the same way Muhammad did? Nope. Do you have to be Willie Pep to avoid the telegraphed clubs of 70s George? Nope.

Holyfield has the style and the attributes to beat 70s George.

 

How can you say this? Foreman was knocked out by Ali, who probably didn't hit as hard as Evander. Very light hitting Young had him down and Lyle, who never stopped a contender outside of Shavers (whose durability isn't exactly great, either) nearly had Foreman out, too. What's more, Holyfield stopped a rock hard chinned Tyson. I absolutely think he can stop Foreman.

Let's not forget Holyfield's durability, either. How often was he legitimately stopped? Against Bowe he clearly had some disease or something. The other two times he went the distance despite a lot of punishment. Twice took Lewis' best shots. Took Mercer's best. Twice took Tyson's best shots. Fought a lot of big men and punchers in general. His durability is a LOT more proven than Foreman's (talking about a prime Foreman here).

 

You guys really think Holyfield hit as hard as Ali? Interesting.

I'm not quite sure I would go that far, I think Ali definitely has the bigger, more natural heavyweight frame.

 

You really think it's about frame size?

Ali: 6'3, 201-211lbs
Holyfield: 6'2, 204-218lbs

Ali started at 190lbs and eventually went up to 201-211lbs in his prime. Holyfield started at a bit lower weight and went up to over 200lbs in his early 20's. In their primes, there is virtually no difference between Holyfield and Ali, regardless of whether it is "natural" or not, and Holyfield certainly had less padding (fat) on him.

 

Ali was 19 when he fought at 190-200. How much did Holyfield weigh at 19, 175 or less? He fought at 190 until the age of 26.

As George Foreman would say, Holyfield was a built up light heavyweight/cruiserweight. Ali and Foreman were both natural heavyweights.

 

Anyone who discounts Holyfields punching accuracy is a fool. Hes hurt some of the most iron chinned guys, Tyson and Mercer, and if you dont think he could hurt Foreman, your nuts.

 

Chrispontius.

You say "Evander stopped a rock chinned Tyson" and say that means he can stop Foreman.

Well Foreman stopped an even harder chin in Chuvalo, so he can stop Evander.

 

The Holyfield that met Foreman punched harder on average than the Ali who met Foreman, since Ali rarely put full leverage in his punches. Their maximum punching power was probably quite even.

The bulked up Holyfield from 1993 onwards hit harder than any version of Ali, though.

But more crucial is accuracy and timing. And great as Holyfield was I don't think he compares with any version of Ali between say 1964 and 1975 here. I don't see him executing the combination that Ali felled Foreman with at a comparable stage in a fight.

Holyfield also didn't quite have Ali's exquisite understanding for when to go for the kill. But concerning pure punching he at the very least matched him.

 

Never in a million years would Holyfield have been knocked out inside three rounds, he was too good a fighter.
The bout would have been close, either Foreman by mid round stoppage or Holyfield taking a decision.