jack dempsey vs rocky marciano

PetethePrince.

If a shop worn Charles can go 15 with Marciano why not Dempsey?

If a even shotter Charles can split Rocky's nose and go 8, why couldn't Dempsey maybe do better?

If LaStarza can go the distance with Marciano...etc, etc.

If Don Cockell can go all those rounds...Cockell took more punishment against the Rock than nearly anyone the Rock fought, but he seemed to take his shots well until the later rounds without really doing anything.

You act like Rocky never struggled with lesser fighters than Dempsey. Dempsey would kill Cockell, he would kill Lastarza. You go on about "Dempsey would get worn down" but i just don't believe anyone the Rocky fought could do to him what a savage 1919 Dempsey could do to him. We hear names like Rex Layne and people like that who are no way comparable to the style Dempsey would bring or were as great as Jack.

I like Marciano, but i favour Dempsey more in H2H match-ups against Modern Heavyweights because his style is better suited to taking out giants, which i don't believe Rocky could do in this era. Some claim that "Rock could beat Foreman", i just don't buy that, Rocky is a coming forward slugger, that is the animal he was, to fight that way against any version of George you lose, while Dempsey would have a better chance than Rock because he could apply the movement and speed.

 

I dont know Ron Lyle was not a monster puncher and he did pretty well going head to head vs Foreman and really how many top heavys did Lyle KO.

We can also reverse the arguement and say how many punchers of Marciano's quality did Dempsey fight. Capentier rocked him and he was 175lbs. Firpo was a puncher but I dont think anyone compares his power or overall quality to Marciano

I think Dempsey was a talent with power and an ATG. I think he was one of the best men of his times and from Sullivan to Louis, one of the best punchers and quality fighters.

In this fight I see it as a battle of attrition and I think Marciano's work rate is the KEY

 

Willard and Firpo were both very big punchers however neither was in Rocky's class as a fighter. I definately think Dempsey's jaw was well tested but he never fought anyone like Marciano that I know of ... it is a very evenly matched fight as I have neither seen Dempsey get outslugged ... there is a reason this is one of the all time dream fights ... it could really go either way ...

 

Charles wasn't shop worn. This is just a wrongly spread myth to bolster Rocky fighting bums. Charles was 32 and not as past it as some suggest.

With an elbow. Yes, maybe Dempsey can win by splitting Marciano's nose with his elbow. That's probably his best hope (Or fighting under his rules and hovering over Rocky).

A green Marciano. Bonavena dropped Frazier twice and almost had him down. Mike Bruce dropped Frazier in his first or second fight. Dempsey lost and had many draws early on. Flynn KOed him in 20 seconds. Seriously, Dempsey's worst and so many other fighters worst is so much worse than LaStarza going the distance with Rocky.

I was waiting for you to pick Marciano's worst performance.

If Meehan can beat Dempsey, if Norton can draw him twice. If a LHW can go 15 rounds with Dempsey, if Firpo can drop Dempsey twice, if TUNNEY could drop Dempsey.

That's funny, because Dempsey himself said Layne was the next most promising HW. AND the press called him the next Dempsey.

Well. I'm sure Cockell, LaStarza, would've lost to Dempsey. I think Cockell would've got Koed within 3-4 rounds. It wasn't Marciano's best night, and Dempsey is more explosive and an early round killer. LaStarza was pretty durable. Dempsey might have been able to get him out of there. Or a late round TKO/decision could have sufficed.

I understand this logic. And I actually think Dempsey should be more favored against the Klits than Rocky. However, in this matchup I favor Rocky. Dempsey isn't going to kill a ball of granite early. Rocky has much much better stamina and power towards the late rounds. Dempsey can't match his pace, and his early ongoings will have him more tired anyway. Durability and power favor the Rocco. I don't buy Dempsey blasts him out, and he doesn't out-box Rocky. He's going to go to war with him. Rocky would win, I think. Rocky fought better punchers, and I don't see how Dempsey is going to beat Rocky if Firpo troubled him.

Who are these people? I don't think he could. I don't think Rocky could beat Ali prime to prime, nor Tyson. I have my limits.

Hmm... Dempsey might have a better chance against Foreman. I actually don't know. One had says his movement, speed, and explosiveness might be able to blitz Foreman out of there. Another says he goes in too aggressively and gets smashed. Marciano might get caught but he would be more calculated. I think Rocco is more durable, and can withstand more punishment. So it's a tossup as to who does better. Either way, I favor Dempsey in some matchups more than I would if Rocky fought them, and vice versa.

 

It's a dream fight. That's the fun in these types of H2H matchups.

But... if you're a betting man. Let's say you have to bet. Who do you choose?

In this case, let's say someone has a gun to head and if you don't bet he kills you. I know it's silly, but I'm just trying to get some initial reaction out of you.

 

This would be an awesome slugfest. If Dempsey could not KO Marciano in the first 4 rounds I have no doubt that Marciano would have KOed him. No way this goes the distance.

 

I think Dempsey would take Rocky out early. I love Rocky, but this matchup is all wrong for him. Dempsey had faster handspeed and better punching accuaracy. He'd beat Rocky to the punch everytime. Plus, Rocky was a late starter. He often had to warm up to his task, and Dempsey would knock him flat before he ever had a chance to find his rhythm.

Ultimately, the fact that Rocky cuts could play a part in him losing, too. And if he was decked by Moore and Walcott, then I'm not sure how he'd fare against Dempsey, who was a better puncher than both of those men.

 

PetethePrince.

It does not matter what Dempsey said about Layne as an old man, Layne is not on the level of Dempsey or should be mentioned in the same breath.

I brought up the Rocky's fights that he struggled in because you bring up Dempsey v Tunney when Dempsey was shot. You keep going on about Dempsey's stamina by using that version of Dempsey. I bring up Cockell, because bring up Dempsey's worst performances for your debate.

Say what you will about Firpo or Willard, but i think they were bigger punchers than Layne, Walcott or Moore despite how "crude" they were. Maricano was dropped in his prime by a 38 year old Walcott and a 40-42 year old Moore, punchers yes, all time, yes. But Dempsey was a bigger puncher than both of them.

Bummy Davis claimed that Charles was 32 and he wasn't shopworn. How many fights did Charles have when he fought Marciano? What weight did he start at? How far did he look from his prime in his previous six fights before fighting Rock? Charles was past his best ever since the last two Walcott bouts, he was shopworn, and he went 15 with the Rock.

 

Charles just came off 2 of his best and explosive wins at Heavyweight, a 2nd rd KO over Bob Satterfield (who just KO'd #1 Heavyweight Challenger Bob Baker in 1 and later went on to dominate Nino Valdez) and he KO'd Coley Wallace in 8, both fights being explosive wins. In the 1st Marciano fight Charles fought with the heart of a lion vs a strong, hard hitting and energetic Champ. Marciano was one year younger. I do think after the first Marciano fight, Charles declined drastically from that war but that was one of Marciano's trademarks. Fighter were never the same after a Marciano fight.

I can take that Charles and put him in with a prime Dempsey and I am not sure who would prevail. Do I think Charles was far better than Carpentier, yes, Gibbons,yes. Do I think he was better than Tunney, now that is a hard question but I do think Charles beat better Heavyweights than Tunney did and many in spectacular fashion

 

If you had a referee that wasn't squeamish, this fight WOULD go the distance. I see Dempsey, however, winning the decision. He was faster than Marciano, could get to Marciano more often, and could actually box on the outside---not greatly, but he would have been Marciano's master. Marciano may have been more conditioned, more powerful a puncher, and thrown more punches than Dempsey---but Dempsey would connect more often.

 

Charles was past his best, just not as most as some suggest. Shop worn is being over-dramatic and crude in analyzing his ability and freshness as a fighter. Especially considering he was the only one to go 15 with Rocco.

 

Dempsey did struggle with a shop worn Lightheavyweight Tommy Gibbions. It can split both ways imo.

 

I'd take Marciano over Dempsey based on better training and coaching alone................. Both had crude styles, but Marciano had the benefit of being more so in the "Modern" world of boxing........ Marciano was also a sharper puncher, so I suppose he'd land first...... I'd pay a Kings ransom to see this event in a time machine with both dudes' at their peaks...... Word...

MR.BILL:bbb

 

You think Dempsey was more crude than Marciano and that Marciano would land before the faster handed and more accurate Dempsey? Are you on shrooms?

 

Yes......... I do think Marciano lands first due to being a more shaper puncher....... I also think Marciano was physically stronger than Dempsey, too............ Oh, it would be a war, but Marciano KO's Dempsey in 10 or 11 rds of warfare.......
bbb:hat

MR.BILL