This is some good stuff. Without getting too into it this Benitez still would have whupped the Duran that beat Moore.
Hmmmm.... Not sure there....... HBO's team had pointed out that Duran looked flat as early as round 2 with Benitez..... Sources say Duran was weak and over-trained in Jan. 1982..... Later in '83, Duran looked like a tiger against Moore, who may've lacked technical skills, but was bigger and stronger than Duran in a physical sense.... MR.BILL
I am a huge Duran fan but I don't think that Duran ever could beat the 154 Bentez of 1982. Duran always looked slow past 147. He4 looked slow against Moore..
Fighters look flat when their opponent makes them look ineffective. Benitez was too quick. Sure Duran always looked like a tiger when he was not fighting Hearns or Benitez or Leonard. Had something to do with the opponent. I am surprised you guys do not realize this. You bought into the Duran was just motivated for Moore and Barkley stuff. Why would he just train for those guys and not the legends? Fact is he could not beat them. The excuses people buy for Duran are not bought for Hearns or Leonard. Fact is Duran was 1-5 against the legends of the 1980's.
Well, one thing is for certain.... Once Roberto Duran moved up to welterweight he had to give up some physical attributes such as, height and reach... Plus, aside from facing and beating Carlos Palomino in 1979 at welterweight, Roberto Duran was also the older man against his opponents from 1980 and onward to 2001.... I cannot think of Duran being younger than anyone he ever fought after 1979........ So, from 1981 to 2001, Duran basically continued his career at weights ranging between 154 to 168..... And, in truth, Roberto Duran really had no business fighting above 147 pounds...... However, he liked to eat and drink during his off time and go way up in weight, and so as the years and pounds mounted, getting down to weights under 150 pounds became more and more of a ***** for Duran.... Therfore he decided it was time to move up and hang out between 154 to 168 for the LAST 20 years of his career......... Incredible..... MR.BILL
I don't think losing to all the legends he fought in the 1980's really incredible. Duran fought well and beat Moore and Barkley, but he had no trouble fighting at the higher weights - 147 and 154 and 160 were not hard for him to fight at. I give him credit for doing decent, but to say it was incredible? That is a stretch. Incredible would have been beating Benitez for his title and then beating Moore and unifying and beating Hearns. He lost to Benitez and Hearns. If you want to talk height and reach, then how did Qawi do so well at 175? Qawi's reach and height were below average, and he did exceptional. If Duran had no business fighting above 147 (when he fought at 154 as early as 78), then Hearns had no business at 175. Yet Hearns won more titles at 175 than at any other weight. I think Hearns beating Hill was incredible. Hill was undefeated and 10 title defenses.
Off topic..... Qawi was as wide as he was tall....... He was a tank......... Qawi at 175 pounds was lean and buffed; no fat........ Qawi would've been weak at 168 had that weight been there in the early 80s...... I thought Qawi looked fine and solid at 190 pounds, however, a little pudge was present there.... Still, he was in-shape between 175 and 190 pounds..... Roberto Duran definately had more of a struggle at carrying weights of 154 to 168 against naturally larger dudes in the ring...... Duran's situation was TOTALLY different than that of Qawi's.... Point is, Qawi was still in his range and element between 175 to 190 pounds..... Qawi wasn't pushing it until he went to heavyweight to fight George Foreman, etc..... thumbsup:hat MR.BILL
The struggle of Duran to fight higher is not true. He had trouble getting weight off, but not to make the 154 or 160 weight classes. I am surprised that people do not see how Duran is being overrated. Not as an ATG but as a top 5-10 ATG. As someone else stated on another comment, Duran fought half of his career at weights higher than 135. Not really a guy who had trouble making weight. That is just another excuse. Hearns moved up from welterweight. So did Leonard. Benitez moved up from 140 and fought great at 154, even outclassing Duran and knocking out Hope. Duran gets excuses other fighters do not get. If every fighter got the excuses Duran got then no one would get credit for a win, the opponent could say he was out of shape or this was not a good matchup. What is the point of Duran ever fighting anyone in those years since if he lost he was naturally out of shape. The interesting thing is that he beat the mediocre guys and lost to the legends. That is the fact. That is what makes that argument unfair. Look at the Leonard fights. That explains it all. Leonard fights flat footed and Duran does well. When Ray does not fight flat footed in the second fight Duran cannot touch him and his jab is missing. Duran needed guys in range. If a guy was in Duran's range that guy was in trouble. But the legends of the 1980's Hearns/Benitez/Leonard did not get in range. And they won easily. Fact.
I'll say this, "Duran, Benitez, Leonard & Hearns" all used excuses at one point or another during their careers and losses.... The only guy who I cannot recall using an excuse was Marvin Hagler.... Benitez claimed he lost to SRL in '79 cuz he had only "3" days of training going into the fight... Leonard claimed he lost to Duran in Montreal cuz he was determined to win but still green in experience... Later on, SRL said he was flat against Hearns in 1989 and that was why he struggled..... Hearns and Manny Steward blamed weak legs for his 1985 loss to Hagler.... Hearns supposedly had his co-trainer rubbing his legs too hard / much prior to the opening bell..... I know their is more to tell, but these are some "Key" complaints from these fighters of greatness..... Note: I only heard Hagler say he was robbed in Vegas in 1987 by the judges...... Personally, I scored it 6-5-1 over 12 rds for LEONARD! And I felt Dwight M. Qawi could've gotten a draw with Holy in 1986 down in Georgia.... Holy and Qawi fought a classic Cruiserweight fight..... I think Holy got some home cooking there..... MR.BILL
The thing is though Mr Bill, people on here take Duran's excuses as the word of God, and fanatically fire them out if Duran is so much as questioned.
Well, their are reasons as why Roberto Duran gets the "Red Carpet" treatment over 95% of all other athletes on the Planet..... 1. Duran is the GREATEST and most FAMOUS Latin / Spanish / Hispanic athlete of all time and played his sport as a pro for 34 years....... Note: I'm sorry, other greats like Pele and Roberto Clemente deserve credit and respect, but I still rate them below Duran....... Roberto Duran is like a God in all of central and south America....... He is known and recognized in every country within that region....... MR.BILL
nice post. yeah I agree, but none of those excuses are really bought by people. Hearns lost to Hagler and no one thinks it was because his legs were weak. I always said Hearns lost the fight regardless of an excuse. The Leonard excuse was more of an explanation I thought, and a true one in light of the fact he proved in the rematch that if he moved Duran could not land his jab or punches cleanly. Benitez always claimed he never trained. Hagler had so much ego that he would have never said he was not 100 percent since that would show maybe he thought he performed bad enough to lose a decision. Also it was usually to Marvin's advantage against the greats since he was the one at the solid weight and they were all moving up in weight.