Why would Tyson have the 3.5 year layoff? For ****? He certainly wouldn't have been drafted like Ali was. I can't see Tyson losing to anyone in the 60s or early 70s until he met Smokin' Joe. (Although Tyson would not have KO'd Chuvalo: if Foreman's savage barrage couldn't do it, nothing Tyson would throw at Chuvalo would.) Tyson/Frazier in 71 would possibly be the Thrilla several years earlier. Just an epic battle. But even supposing Tyson takes Frazier's measure he'd run into the awesome Foreman of the next year or two. Goodnight Mike. EDIT: And after Foreman KO's Tyson, he never meets Ali in the jungle, never has his confidence crushed, and keeps his wits about him. He then cleans out the heavyweight division for a decade+, and Larry Holmes never becomes champ.
Tyson takes out Frazier in the same fashion Foreman did. Very little doubt in my mind. A pressure fighter is suicide against Tyson.
Tyson massacres everyone until he goes to prison. Tyson is horrendously underrated by historian types.
I think they were the 2 best boxers of there era...Ali has trouble with the Buster Douglas that beat Tyson and the Holyfield and Lennox Lewis....Tyson may have trouble with Foreman and Frazier and Young and Liston but walks through Bugner,Lyle, he would have a few tough momnets with Quarry and Bonavena but I still think they both do equally well in opposite era's
I think you have a point. Just look at how open and mistimed Mathis jr made him look at times in his second fight, when he had several more months to train. That was the kinds of things Quarry feasted on. Him, Bonavena and Frazier. Man, is that different from McNeely, Mathis and Bruno. Granted, they were all easy wins for Tyson, but these other three sure wouldn't be.
As much as I'm a fan of Ali,there's no way I saw him winning his real fight with Berbick in 1981. He was competitive,but cleary lost on the cards.
Well, people thought a 1996 Holyfield would be murdered by Tyson too. Holyfield was past his best and there to be hit but he was a tough guy and a great counterpuncher, and that was enough. Quarry gave a prime Joe Frazier a tough fight for 7 rounds, I dont see him getting beaten quickly by a '96 Tyson. It's an open question to me as to who would win. ..... and Bonavena would be even tougher for Tyson I feel. That's my opinion, and it's simply based on the fact that '96 Tyson's ability to beat a real fighter like Quarry cannot be gauged off those easy fights against such feeble opposition.
First of all, I'm glad the judges scored it the way they did, as Ali should not have been in the ring by that time, and he may have actually continued if he'd been awarded the decision. Having said that, I felt Muhammad controlled the movement within the ring (generalship), outscored Berbick decisively from long range, and largely neutralized Trevor's flailing to his body in close quarters. The best performances of Berbick that I saw were against Tate and Page. His hands were busy against Ali, but I did not consider it as effective aggression, and I thought Muhammad was better against him than Greg had been. No, no. I was referring to how Sonny rendered the hand speed of Patterson irrelevant. I do not believe Mike's vastly superior hand speed would help him any more against Liston than Floyd's own vastly superior hand speed did. (I do agree with Ali that the more laterally mobile and elusive Patterson of the Chuvalo fight was a considerably evolved animal, and that Liston-Patterson III may not have been another automatic blow out win for the aging Sonny. It wouldn't have been the first time Floyd had turned it around against somebody who had blown him out.) Jerry did not quite shut out Spencer, but it certainly was one sided domination. Of course Tyson is an infinitely more serious entity, but I expect that the Quarry of the Spencer fight could have neutralized Mike's fast start, then finished stronger down the stretch to take it on the cards. Spencer was a special performance for Jerry, who like Tyson, peaked so tragically early. No, the failure to communicate was mine. Obviously, these are minority views, and I'd be very startled to find any amount of significant agreement with them.
Both would beat the others first era. 1986 tyson would smash 64' liston in about 3 rounds. ali would dominate berbick on points like he did chuvalo since berbick was awkward for ali. ali would struggle with the driven douglas in tokyo but would own holyfeild since he would still be as good as he was against ron lyle by the time that fight comes up. Tyson would self distruct even if there is nobody as good as douglas or holyfeild amoung the title chalengers ali got in both reigns. ali was stronger mentaly he would still prevail. the 1971 frazier beats the tyson who chalenged bruno so the foreman fight never comes into the equation. tyson says himself his careeer effectivly ended in 1990 that makes 1968 if he is in ali's shoes.
Ali would beat all of Mikes competition, may have some trouble with a pumped up Douglas in Tokyo (might even have a trilogy with him if Buster wins the first one) Remember Ali too took some opponents lightly IMO Spinks, Cooper, he too may have overlooked Douglas. Mike Beats all of Alis comp, apart from Foreman and thats because Cus himself said a swarmer would never beat Foreman. Frazier would get Ko'd because a brawl would suit Tyson fine, the only way to beat Tyson would have been to be bigger and stronger than him i.e Foreman or use the Douglas, Lennox, Holyfield tehcnique by hitting, moving and frustrating him. Foreman clubbed Frazier to submission, Tyson would have turned his lights off. Remember before Marvis, he said when u jab he bows down, when he does that im going to catch him with an uppercut, which is what Mike did, he most likely would have employed the same strategy with Joe. If you watch the Foreman vs Frazier I fight, Foreman does the same thing, he throws a pawing jab, frazier ducks down and George throws an uppercut. Liston im not sure about, Tyson loved to brawl, and they woudlnt have to go far to find each other..... the 2 badboys of boxing...best fight ever Thats my 2cents
...ok, following up with Tyson After the loss to Frazier Tyson goes on a winning streak beating the likes Ellis KO8, Mathis KO4, Mac Foster W15, Patterson again (KO9), Bob Foster KO3, Joe Bugner W12, and Norton KO9 among others. He has a surprisingly tough time with Mac Foster and Joe Bugner. His fight with Norton is epic. Frazier goes on to lose to George Foreman (LKOby2), so naturally a Frazier vs. Tyson II fight (with the winner to face Foreman) makes sense... Frazier vs. Tyson II- Frazier beats Tyson again (KO12) Foreman goes on to KO Frazier again (KO5) eventually we see Foreman vs. Tyson... Foreman KO3 Tyson Foreman retires undefeated after his close win over a determined Jimmy Young. Tyson remains a top fighter... he goes on to KO Shavers, Lyle, Young, and Norton (again) before losing to a prime Holmes (KO11) in a fight to determine the new HW champ. Tyson retires but comes back a few times with mixed results. He beats L. Spinks and Berbick by KO but he gets stopped by an up and coming Cooney (lol, I couldn't resist) and even gets outpointed by Tex Cobb before calling it quits for good.