Wladimir Klitschko moves to a tie for 4th all time with 15 wins in title fights.

I agree to a point.

The problem with going back in time to count the WBO belt, is where do you stop.

Does that mean Herbie Hide was a true heavyweight champion?

The fact the Wlad has it now, is fortunate for the belt. IMO, if you want to count the WBO, you can only do that from the time when it was possible to hold the WBO and any other title belt. Previously - when Sanders dropped it - it wasn't possible for the belt holder to fight for another belt at the same time.

That alone should rule anything but the last couple of years out for the WBO. And even then I'm not really convinced.


I know what you're saying about "the fighter makes the belt". Does that mean the WBU or WBF or whatever it was that Hatton had right before he beat Kostya NOW become title fights? Because after that, Hatton won the IBF and linear titles, so those all now count as title fights?

Of course they don't - it's about what the belt meant AT THE TIME. And when Wlad, Vitaly, Herbie Hide etc had the WBO, it meant bugger all.

 

By that logic, the Wba belt shouldnt be rated at HW at all. Since 2000 its been in the hands of ruiz,holyfeild,valuev,chagaev,jones,and now haye....... And ruiz tends to get a shot at it every other fight atsch

 

By what logic? The fact that you couldn't hold the WBA belt alongside any others?

That's my argument. And that's why second tier fighters wanted the WBO, because you could then dump it and get a shot at the "real" belts.

Just like a WBC Pacific or Oceania or whatever belt. For recognition. It wasn't a true, top level belt.

 

1. Wlad has been the dominant force in the division since 2006, just like Holmes was the dominant force in the division since 1980 (Ali retired in august 1979), despite not having all the belts, despite only having the NEW IBF belt since 1983.

2. The WBO, since the 2000s, is legit. Why would the WBO not be legit? Afterall, the IBF was recently created and new in the 1980s, and it was legit.

3. Wlad beat Chagaev, who was WBA champions.

4. Are we really so brutal that we need to see two brothers fighting each other?

 

But look at the guy who Wlad beat for the title (Byrd), and the guy he lost it to (sanders)

Those are 2 credible fighters, and good title fights. The fighters fighting over the title, are what make it good. Wlad vs Sanders was much more relevent than lets say Ruiz vs Jones

 

1. Holmes was considered by all to be the best heavyweight. He crushed the top opposition. Wlad hasn't fought the second best fighter in the division since 2007.

2. The WBO is still crap.

3. You have a very good point here.

4. Yes, if their fans want to claim one or the other is an ATG.


Keith

 

1) sounds about right.

2) Yes, sounds about right again. But you can't go back NOW and count the fights Wlad won when it wasn't. As much as it pains me, (Shannon Briggs?) - anything after when you could unify the WBO with other belts is fine to count.

3) No, he wasn't. No matter how shitty that decision was. In that case, Wlad isn't the IBF champ - because Lewis was stripped of it before Byrd got it, so he's the last real champ. But then LEwis might not be WBC belt....you can't just ignore a sanctioning bodies ruling. No matter how dumb or corrupt it is.

4) No. I don't want to see them fight. But also, there can't be anyone recognised as 'the man' until one of them gets out of the way.

 

No, not even close.


Keith

 

Not at the time it wasn't. Sanders was considered a semi-retired nearly man when he fought Wlad. I'd love to know what the odds were before the fight.

It's only because he won that things then changed around.

Ruiz - no matter how shittily, had actually won a proper belt, and Jones was a legend at light heavy.

 

Seriosuly??? A light heavy vs a horrible fight like ruiz

At least in sanders wlad, it was a olympic gold medalist vs a seasoned pro

 

Holmes never fought Witherspoon, Page or Dokes: the best contenders of his era.

 

So was Audley Harrison against Danny Williams.

 

Wlad was a much better fighter at that point than audley has ever been, and sanders is a much better fighter than williams ever was.

Id take either wlad or sanders to beat roy or ruiz

 

I'm not too sure about Sanders beating either of them to be honest.

Wlad should - but Wlad should have beaten Sanders too.

I honestly don't think Sanders is that much ahead of Williams in terms of ability or achievement. Both are enigmas, and wasted talent to be honest.

What are Sanders best wins outside of Wlad?

Sprott?
Purrity?