Is Lucian Bute over-rated?

You also said Bute had a weak chin. I was responded to that.
So, you know nothing and don't know how to read. Still improving, champ.

 

Good post.

 

Thanks Ramon, I just wanted to give another view of the question first ask in this thread.

 

Not counting the IBO. As much as I wish that was a major title instead of some of the other orgs, it just isn't.

 

:good Well said

It's funny cause a lot of what we debate on these boards is in reference to this thread, how 'good' someone is and what have they done to warrant their 'ranking'. However fighters themselves dont care much about this debate, they just look forward to their next opponent and train hard.

The truth is that a fighter is only as good as his last fight. This can't be more true and it is amazing how we fans are so easy to forget.

Right now Miranda is considered a huge underdog and nobody is making threads about him or his future possibilities. Nobody is making predictions as to how he would do against some of the top fighters in the close divisions. But watch what happens IF Miranda pulls of this victory. The boards will be full of these threads and where Miranda ranks now in the top of the division. Bute's stock will drop faster than the economy did and he will be discounted against everyone. What is crazy is all this could happen as a result of one David Bank's right hand from Miranda to Bute's head. One punch and all of us fans take a 360 degree turn on our discussions and predictions. You are only as good as your last fight. Remember those words. We live by them.

 

Gotcha little boy!

 

I agree with you Pantera.

Miranda dont even have to win to make some people making 360 degree turn.

For exemple, even if Bute wins, but not as "easy" as "fans" were expecting, some will start to question Bute's talent. And in all likelyhood, Miranda will not be praise as he should be, to have create this "upset". This mindset is a little sad in my opinion. It's why I think we should stay positive and rational, instead of negative and impulsive.

Wishfull thinking? I hope not!

Thanks for your feedback.

 

You are absolutely correct. I was thinking the same thing awhile back. Unless Bute wins an easy fight (like Abraham II or Ward against Miranda) then he will be criticized for his performance. God for bid it is an all at war and a close fight. Miranda will indeed gain even from a loss and Bute will get his win but with not without hurting his reputation. I really dont see how Miranda can lose by taking this fight right now. People expect him to get schooled and embarrassed. What's the worse that can happen? It's like the economy, we got nowhere to go but up! (I hope!)

 

It's true Bute has often faced the same type of boxer but the others usually don't want to face Andrade or Bika. Bute is at least facing them.

 

nah... miranda is battle tested... he seems tougher each fight. If Bute loses to Miranda there would be no shame in the game.

 

Some people overrated him like it happens for everyone. Still needs to win some important fights. So say he's the "real deal".

 

95% of people here need to realise what I will say right now.

You just Can't base a rating on achevment. its mathematical... suppose a very talented guy like David Lemieux just fight c grade fighter ranked between 300-500 and totally dismantle them, do you rank him 200-300 because he have no good fighters in his list and no achievement, you just cannot... maybe the guy is a top 30 in his division, so you cant rank a guy only on his achivment. you got to rank him based on his skills and performance. you didnt have to wait till Ali was 30-35 year old to say he is p4p best because there his achievement were great... you should have him p4p at around 21-22 years old and there his achivment werent amazing. its not because William Joppy has accomplished more and been champion of the world longer than Jean Pascal than he must be rank higher. do you understand the logic behind this. You got to base your ranking on what I would call a odds system (what would be the odds for Bute-Ward, Bute-Abraham, Bute-Kessler: there only a little meaning of achivment there.) odds represent the general opinion or analyst opinion of a fighter. Andre Dirrell had accomplish nothign jsut after Stevens fight but was already ranked top 15-20 and no one started to say overrated because they knew the odds would have been fair against a top 15-20 fighter. if Bute have dominated many fighters in top 10 (Andrade x2,Bika,Zuniga,Berrio) it mean that he is far better than these guy, he is in another league, se he can be put way better than just no6-7 you know.. he have a big edge over these guy. also Im sure that if Bute was facing Ward or Froch or AA the odds would be between 45%-55% or really even therefore Bute can be ranked as high as no1 because no fighter has the rights to claim that he would be the clear favorite against Bute.

People who rank fighters only with achivment have a kind of delayed list because they always wait many fights before moving a fighter ranking kind of always waiting for achivment to back up the ranking.


If Bernard Hopkins was still fighting at 47 years old and win easily against bums would you keep him on top 5 p4p list?? you know thats what a achivment list do, it delay the reality... kind of waiting to see Hopkins lose badly before kicking him out of p4p list... so these list are always wrong they dont represent the reality. A young beast who won gold medal easily could very well enter pro and already be ranked top 40-50 even before facing one single opponant...

 

the principal thing is to ask yourself waht would be the odds for a determined fight, than you can make a list that make sense. because the ranking should be made with 2 things:

1- Skill/Performance

2- speculation/risk (unknown factor) this is what alter a fighter with no achivments

achiuvments are there to answer the number 2 point, therefore you can rank the fighter with his skill/performance and achivment... A fighter that have no achivment have to be ranked on his skill/performance, and the risk he present to not perform to the expectations. You know ANdre dirrell had better skill than sakio Bika even after 5 professional fight, but nobody would have rank him really high because the risk that he do not perform to the expectation at that level were huge. its the same way it goes in Economic. The value and the risk of a share determine his price. The value of a fighter and the risk related to the fighter should determine his rank.

so is the case for Bute, great skill/awsome performance and little risk related to him because not enough achivment, therefore the odds would be great for him or almost even facin AA,Ward,Kessler.

Same aplly to Ward... Great skill/awsome performance(better than Bute), medium risk (bigger risk than Bute because he havent fought the same amount of fighter as Bute... therefore the odds would probably be even for a fight Bute-Ward... understand my point...

 

if there is one fighter overrated its AA...

skill/ permformance not amazing

and the unknown factor about him is still big... only big win against Miranda and Taylor... Taylor was shot... Miranda gave him a really tough first fight... we could compare AA-Miranda I-II to Bute-ANdrade I-II but ANdrade being the better fighter... also AA remain unproven at SMW. I think people get impress by AA stats 31-0 if I remeber... but skill wise hes not awsome and there still a big unknown factor... I would put money on Bute-Ward-Dirrell-Kessler over AA because they are better skill wise and at least equal proven... only maybe DIrrell may be a big question mark...

 

Thing is its easy to look good and skillful vs fighters that have no skill. IE Bute. If you have every advantage in a fight then you should win the fight. What your saying is too simple. If the odds say that Bute would beat Ward it has nothing to do with the actual fight. Rankings and ratings arent won on paper or by guessing what might happen should two fighters face off. If you dont go by what happens in the ring then whats the point of having the fights?? We can just all seat around and vote to see who would win and then call the guy that gets the most votes P4P...

No disrespect, but that is one of the worst debates I have seen from a non-Pac fanboy in a long time.