Roberto Duran vs Roy Jones Jr @ MW

As I walk through the path of Madison Square Garden,I fear no fighter....:good

 

Pongsaklek Wonjongkam

 

Dont you ****ing start.

 

I don´t call you close minded, I call you crazy.

 

Duran KO. His resume is sparkling.

 

crazy? I back up all my facts. To call Duran top 5-10 ATG is a big stretch. He didn't fight anyone great at lightweight and could land his punches on the inside. He was quick compared to most and had a great right and great inside punches. But when he moved up the guys moved and he couldn't utilize his good speed but not great, and his foot positining was too wide apart-even at lightweight. How is that crazy? I study fights. I put in the old tapes and play them over and over. I see how Duran fights in old fights and more recent. He looked great when a guy was in front of him, but he never overcame a great style to win who was great. He always won when the style was good for him, but when it wasn't he just didn't come through. He always needed the great style or lesser opponent or something to equalize. But when he fought a great who was exceptional he didn't win, no matter what excuse the fans give me.

Ray Leonard and Thomas Hearns had two ways to fight and were more versatile. And that is overlooked by Duran fans, who tend to overrate him because of his machismo and charisma, and overrated him for that, instead of his wins over fellow greats which there really are none. He acted so confident when he won that fans seem to see that and think, that guy is invincible, and he was not knocked out much except for Hearns, so people bought the excuses.

 

Everyone's entitled to an opinion, and obviously no-one knows for sure with historical matchups.

But... listening to you reminds me of a brain 'short circuit.'

Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Leonard, Hearns, Duran, Leonard, Hearns....over and over and over again.

We all know your opinions re: Duran. I now understand the following thanks to your penetrating insight and wisdom, and am glad I have now seen the light:

1) Duran never fought anyone good at LW. Buchanan, DeJesus et al were all overrated because of their association with Duran.

2) His 'peak' record of 72-1 (56KO) was padded.

3) His best wins were against fighters where he cheated (Buchanan) or where his opponents were either green (Leonard), weight-drained (DeJesus II), ancient (deJesus III), crap (Moore) or taylor-made for him stylistically (Barkley).

4) His unprecedented win, in moving up an entire division to unequivocally batter an ATG at their best weight when they were unbeaten and at the peak of their confidence and physical powers - was totally overshadowed by Duran spitting at the end of the fight.

5) Duran's appearance on film, an almost perfect blend of controlled savagery, great athleticism and endurance, ring savvy, feinting, head movement, total lack of fear and a full repertoire of offensive and defensive boxing skills - is really just a set of clever camera angles and hyperbolic commentary - if he hadn't benefited from the might of the Panamanian media, he would never have been known wider circles.

6) Being a 4 division champ, and fighting successfully across 5 decades merely reinforces how hand-picked his opponents were.

7) In addition to his opponents being iffy, he also fought them when it was convenient for him, not them - and under carefully constructed stipulations that were patently unfair. One prime example being Leonard I where he insisted on the fight being over 15 rounds and using boxing gloves.

8) While he has glamorous names on his record, they were all green or ancient. Excellent examples, being the 'green' undefeated champion Leonard, the 'past-it' middle-of-middleweight rein Marvin Hagler, and the similarly-sized peak performance of Tommy Hearns.


:tired

 

He was a champion with Hearns at 154. I know we are going over the same arguments and neither of us will change our opinions. You say Duran moved up one whole division to beat Ray and you say Ray was an ATG, in June of 1980 Ray was not the complete ATG he was later. How can that be fact? He had fought 2 title fights. Hearns moved up 2 full divisions if you call welt to mid to light heavyweight and beat Hill, but Hearns did not have the machismo and theatrics of Duran, but his wins were just as good and probably better. Hearns won 3 of his titles from Cuevas,Benitez,Hill, and beat Duran in what should have been a unification? 4-0 in those fights against those guys. Again my point is not that Duran is not an ATG, it is that he is not 25-30 ATG.