Liston -vs- Holyfield:

Holyfield was always there to be hit...that wouldn't work against Sonny..

 

Nah, Holyfield will do fine is this match.

 

1. That's not what you said.


You said

"inferior to harold johnson, hall, charles, moore even bucceroni."


2. Who is to say Henry Hall and Dan Bucceroni were better than Johnny Summerlin?

 

Actually I'm changing my vote from sonny Liston to evander Holyfield by stoppage. not only did evander have the better resume, opponents, and heart, he has also been known to have a great chin. he took shots from Lewis, Tyson, and foreman, and he was able to stay on his feet. those 3 guys were very hard punchers, so I don't think Liston is going to knock out evander. I think the Holyfield that fought Cooper or bowe the 1st time is likely to stop and break down Liston.
liston and Holyfield are roughly the same height and weight, but I think evander may have the advantage in the strength and height, he worked with weights and there was really some more definition in his muscles, that's why I think he was stronger then Liston.
evander is stronger, faster, smarter, heavier, taller, and he has better footwork and mobility. something that evander could do is box a braweler or slug with them; I think in a fight like this evander would square up and slug with Liston, and Liston would be shocked and maybe even intimidated. I'll say evander Holyfield stopage.

 

sorry suzie, that is what I said. I think johnson, moore, charles, hall and bucceroni were beter than summerlin.

summerlin beat folley thats it. the rest of johnnys career was rather patchy he lost a lot of times. wes bascum knocked out summerlin. dan bucceroni knocked bascum out! that makes bucceroni beter than sumerlin in my book.

henry hall as good as johnny summerlin? Id say so. hall once beat a peak archie moore an ATG. knocking out satterfield and beat burt lytell twice. Hall tangled with almost the entire cast of the murderers row on fairly good terms. he was indeed beter than johnny summerlin.

 

Seriously, some of the fighters you all keep mentioning weren't ****... so what's the point? Does anybody think beating Bob Baker means anything? Baker was 6'2" and 215-220Lbs but he only scored 20 KOs in 68 fights. Only Archie Moore, Satterfield and Clarence Henry stopped him. He lost 13 decision and had 1 draw. Anybody really think Marciano ducked him?

 

I agree with you. Liston was a good champion but not the ATG his aura falsly elevates him to. liston did not pay his dues in a way that can be compared with holyfeild who compeated at world title level over a much longer period often comming through when the odds were stacked against him.

neither rocky nor liston ducked fighters. The mentioning of old fighters refers to my argument that more of listons big wins were not SO sensational since each "victim" had been dispatched by lesser fighters previously. regardless of their age none of listons guys were outstanding contenders in the true sence, just the best around -and thats fine. its good enough to be a good champion just not top 10 ATG. Liston was sensational against rated guys who had been sensationaly knocked out before.

 

Bump.

 

Liston 44, Holyfield 33... I can't ****ing believe it! I see Holyfield stopping Liston late.

Liston's reach is not going to be the deciding factor here. Holyfield is used to fighting guys with long reaches. The guys he fought with long reaches were also very tall... Liston was shorter than Holyfield... that takes away from the reach a little, also takes a little something off the punches when you have to punch up.

Holyfield is faster, has better footwork, has a higher workrate, has one of the best chins ever, and is probably stronger than Liston.

Sure, Liston used the jab more and his jab was harder. What else does he bring? He hit a little harder, so what?

 

Liston beat on men who were smaller or simply afraid of him in many of his fights. Holyfield slayed dragons and even outboxed Bigfoot when he was 137 years old.

 

I would pick Holyfield here, I think he would be able to handle Liston's power and his heavy hands and jab in the early rounds. I see a very close fight going into the late rounds which would be where Holyfield would take over, I see him sweeping the late rounds to post a decision win.. If Sonny goes hard for broke late Holyfield may even stop him... I really like the analogy of crowning holyfield The Bully Destroyer, that's what he was and that is again what he would be here..

 

Let's be honest though, Tyson was rather mediocre at the time he faced Holyfield and Holyfield was hardly a force himself at that point in his career. Tyson had no other options other than to go straight at Holyfield, which made him a perfect target for Holyfield's counter punching, even more so since Tyson had abandoned most of his defensive moves by then.

Against Liston, Holyfield has to deal with a constant jab and it is no certainty that he's the stronger man inside. Liston looked plenty strong when he went to work on Cleveland Williams in the first fight, pouring on combinations to the body and head. I just wouldn't necessarily bet on Holyfield getting the better of a brawl here.

Holyfield went at big bad Riddick Bowe and got the worst of it for the most part. I guess there's something to be said about his efforts but I don't know if I'd use this series as proof of Holyfield beating Liston either. It does show that he could very well win atleast one out of three with the correct gameplan, but then Holyfield could take 1 out of 3 against almost any heavyweight.

 

On what basis?

Maybe, who knows. At the very least, he'd probably have as good a shot with them as anyone.

Just as virtually every other fighter that has ever lived has had.

Which actually shows that he could adapt to such men.

Conversely, Liston showed he could never adapt to a great HW, as he showed by going 0-2 in that regard.

And what KO wins of Liston are you basing that determination on?

And that would be a belief with little or no factual basis.