HW compiled statistics

TIME TRAVEL FANTASY TOURNAMENT

Challenge: Each man tabulated below has to win 3 consecutive matches in the next 12 months and cannot fight the same opponent twice.

Which 3 opponents from the list should they pick to give themselves the best chance of victory? Which order? And why?

The information for each man in the table is in the following order:

(Name, year, yrs since turning pro, age, height, weight, reach, record).

Joe Louis; (1939); 5; 25yo; 6 2; 207; 76; 37-1
Rocky Marciano; (1953); 6; 30yo; 5 10; 187; 67; 43-0
Sonny Liston; (1958); 6; 28yo?; 6 0; 212; 84; 23-1
Muhammad Ali; (1968); 8; 26yo; 6 3; 213; 80; 29-0
Joe Frazier; (1969); 4; 25yo; 5 11; 204; 73; 24-0
George Foreman; (1974); 5; 25yo; 6 4; 224; 82; 34-0
Larry Holmes; (1978); 5; 29yo; 6 3; 210; 81; 27-0
Mike Tyson; (1988); 3; 22yo; 5 11; 218; 71; 34-0
Evander Holyfield; (1991); 8; 29yo; 6 1; 205; 78; 28-0
Riddick Bowe; (1991); 3; 24yo; 6 5; 235; 81; 32-0
Lennox Lewis; (1997); 8; 32yo; 6 5; 244; 84; 32-1

AVERAGE; 5.5; 27yo; 6 2; 214; 78; 31 fights

Caveat: There may be some disagreement over a given fighters absolute peak, feel free to use your own numbers...NB: The champs have full knowledge of each others careers up to this point.

Some related questions:

Which 3 opponents would be their toughest, as opposed to their easiest?

Does any champ consistently feature in the 'easy' or 'hard' lists?

Would the champs pick the same opposition for themselves that you would pick on their behalf?

Some Observations on the data:

Examining the "Averages" row formalises some pre-conceived ideas.

1) As a HW you are at an absolute peak when you are 27 years old, with 30 fights under your belt spread over a 5 year period. Being 6 2 and 214 lb helps!

2) Age wise Tyson (22) and Bowe (24) are particularly early developers, while Lewis (32) and Marciano (30) are particularly late developers (Listons age being something of an unknown).

3) Louis, Liston and Lewis all carry a single loss at this point in their career trajectory (Louis and Lewis by KO, Liston by SD). Lewis is on the shortest winning streak. The rest are undefeated.

4) Since turning pro, Tyson (3), Bowe (3) and Frazier (4) seem to hit their straps very quickly, while Ali (8), Holyfield (8) and Lewis (8) are all slower incremental improvers.

Note, Ali could be argued to have peaked as early as Liston II in 1965, in which case his number is 5 not 8. Holyfield had a prior career as a cruiser which inevitably artificially inflates his number as he rebuilds a second career as a HW. Lewis is arguably actually slower than his number implies, given he had two separate stabs at the Olympics prior to turning pro.

5) Ali's statistics at the time of his enforced exile in 1968 eerily reflect the average peak values for the entire set of champions.

6) In addition to Marciano, Frazier does seem rather small. Lewis is the biggest by a clear margin. Tyson is a real tank at a lean 218lb.

7) Every 5-10 years there is a dominant peaking champ.

8) The late 60s and the early 90s look to be particularly strong, assuming the right matches are made.

9) In terms of physical dimensions, it is Foreman - not Liston - who looks to be the man ahead of his time.

PS The numbers should be double checked for accuracy - but I think the broad conclusions are probably correct.:good

 

Yeah, there are a few numbers that are iffy, with Marcianos height being one of them. Any others you think are off??

Any surprises emerge from the correct figures?

 

Cheers mate,

I can see the forum is pretty dead at the moment, so the thread - good idea or not - may be destined for the ESB slagheap!!

 

Thanks Boilermaker,

You have illustrated my aim nicely.

I agree with your initial picks of Frazier and Marciano for Big George, and that the third pick is tougher. Louis is a BRAVE pick but I can see your logic!!

Back to Foreman Frazier. How do you think the quoted peak 1969 Frazier goes versus the flubby 1973 version when the two actually met?

Any difference in the outcome, or maybe just a delay of a round or two.

I know there are many on the ESB Board of Experts who reckon prime Frazier gives prime Foreman all he can handle...