Kessler looked Poor on Saturday!

IntentionalButt · Apr 29, 2010

Endbell said: ↑

Kessler broke Froch's nose. Thats got to count for something. 1 extra point in the super six? Maybe? First man to do so?

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I'd say the split baked potato nose and the small left eye cut on Froch are pretty much canceled out by the enormous vagina along Kessler's brow.

They inflicted a lot of damage on each other (and when you think about how much more they could have had they not both missed so damn much....:scaredas

DOM5153 · Apr 29, 2010

good post IB

IntentionalButt · Apr 29, 2010

OK, maybe I missed the sequence with the head clash that opened it up.

I was just going by what Kessler said...he thought it was a punch.

IntentionalButt · Apr 29, 2010

Endbell said: ↑

Coming from a guy with a name IntentionalButt this is highly amusing.atsch
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Glad to be of service.

Little Pea · Apr 29, 2010

I also thought it was a punch...

Little Pea · Apr 29, 2010

I believe you.
I'll have to watch it again.

You just look like a hater with your animated **** ****.

That being said, i agree with the ts...and i might add that Froch looked like **** too.
But the fight was exciting.

elguapo · Apr 29, 2010

emallini said: ↑

Slow , Plodding and missing with most of his punches. He was tagged by the most telegraphed slow motion punches ive ever seen. In the early stages he was getting outboxed by Froch! Froch was on the outside and Kessler looked Terrible. Dirrell would make him look like a fool.
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True

Elvizzz · Apr 29, 2010

IntentionalButt said: ↑

san raf, you and I seem to have a healthy mutual respect. I never realized you were in the "all Kessler fans are either Danish nationalists or closet Calzaghe fans with an agenda" camp.

Would you go as far as casting that aspersion on me?

Some of us who became fans of Kessler did so during his prime. Was he more than a very good, technically sound 1-2 fighter in his prime? No. It was, however a style and skillset that was effective enough against decent European (and world) level opposition, and it was pleasing to the eye. Against solid (not Ring top ten p4p, but solid) competition in Mundine, Beyer, Andrade - he looked very good, and in addition to just being a likable guy, that won him supporters.

I am not a fan of Calzaghe or his slapping style (though one must at least consider that with fragile mitts, it is impressive that someone could eschew true power punching and still manage to win and win and win). He has earned my begrudging respect (particularly with the dynamic win over Kessler, where he was forced to do some very surprising things he hadn't had to do in years) but at the time they met, I was passionately rooting against him. Kessler disappointed against Calzaghe - not in terms of his will or heart, but in dimensionality. In ability to adapt and adjust. One man was able to, and the other just wasn't - it wasn't a part of his identity as a fighter. This was shown again when he ran into similar problems with another very good (potentially great) and multi-dimensional boxing-spoiler in Ward...the difference being, between the two losses his build-back performances ranged from "mediocre" to "okay" (in contrast, he looked like a monster before Calzaghe, enough so that some of us felt very comfortable favoring him 60-40).

He's clearly lost some of the quickness, the timing, the surety of foot and fist placement that made him appear so much more technically sound in the middle of the 00's than at the tail end of the decade. Whether that loss is a temporary and reversible one remains to be seen...I'm not holding my breath. People age, and their physical abilities diminish. What's encouraging is that he has a fresh face (and voice) working the corner, someone who will be comfortable experimenting with different stylistic tweaks, with bringing a plan B, C, and D. No disrespect to Olsen, but that relationship had gone as far as it could go.

If your first exposure to Mikkel was in the loss to Calzaghe, and you've only watched his work since then, I can certainly understand the bafflement of doubters who aren't sure what fans see in him, and why he is "rated so highly off a loss". His career didn't begin with a loss to Calzaghe, though. That was the swansong, the last performance to date of the very sharp, accurate (and IMO, prime) Kessler.

Now that those attributes are faded, and at least for the time being he's got his plate full with top-level competition in front of him as far as the eye can see (assuming he KO's Green and makes the semifinals), he's got to make do with what he has in order to stand a chance. Phoning in performances like Perdomo won't cut it. Even this gutsy but sloppy effort against Froch - maintaining that level of performance simply isn't good enough going forward as the tournament heats up (or if he wants to remain a world champion in the longer term). He needs to look at what attributes he does still have available to him and improve upon them. That includes an iron will, near-iron chin, a still decent offensive arsenal (more varied than pre-Calzaghe, but at the expense of accuracy and fluidity...and his bread and butter 1-2 lacks the same snap that it had), a new trainer with new ideas, and a newfound go-for-broke slugger's mentality fueled by a burning desire to win. He can't outbox the true elite boxers at this point with his once-effective mastery of the stand-up European style (if he ever could have), so he has to be the aggressor...whether it looks pretty or not. He doesn't have the legs to utilize his old defensive evasiveness, nor are his reflexes sharp enough to pick off shots with his gloves...so Montoya is trying to drill home the concepts of head movement and being first (and last) to get off. His right hand the way he throws it now isn't going to be spoiling anybody's dreams anymore (except maybe tofu-chinned Allan Green's), so he's got to fine-tune his underrated hook and uppercut to the body and make sure he's putting the time in during camp to make sure he can maintain a very high punch output and bank on outworking and hopefully outlanding his opponents, maybe stopping them by attrition but at the very least racking up points.

Whether a fan or not, you have to concede that it'll be interesting to see how he continues to fare with replacing his older, prettier, more careful and economical, and simpler style and skillset with the newer, uglier, riskier, busier and less familiar.

Is your skepticism (and that of many, many others) of Kessler's current and recent ability at the world level justified and fair? Yes.

Is yours - or anybody's - dismissal of him as ever having been a quality operator in the sport of boxing, and of his fans as fitting categorically into either the nationalist slot or the JC-fans-with-ulterior-motive slot - justified and fair? Not at all.
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Well put
:good

THN · Apr 29, 2010

IntentionalButt said: ↑

san raf, you and I seem to have a healthy mutual respect. I never realized you were in the "all Kessler fans are either Danish nationalists or closet Calzaghe fans with an agenda" camp.

Would you go as far as casting that aspersion on me?

Some of us who became fans of Kessler did so during his prime. Was he more than a very good, technically sound 1-2 fighter in his prime? No. It was, however a style and skillset that was effective enough against decent European (and world) level opposition, and it was pleasing to the eye. Against solid (not Ring top ten p4p, but solid) competition in Mundine, Beyer, Andrade - he looked very good, and in addition to just being a likable guy, that won him supporters.

I am not a fan of Calzaghe or his slapping style (though one must at least consider that with fragile mitts, it is impressive that someone could eschew true power punching and still manage to win and win and win). He has earned my begrudging respect (particularly with the dynamic win over Kessler, where he was forced to do some very surprising things he hadn't had to do in years) but at the time they met, I was passionately rooting against him. Kessler disappointed against Calzaghe - not in terms of his will or heart, but in dimensionality. In ability to adapt and adjust. One man was able to, and the other just wasn't - it wasn't a part of his identity as a fighter. This was shown again when he ran into similar problems with another very good (potentially great) and multi-dimensional boxing-spoiler in Ward...the difference being, between the two losses his build-back performances ranged from "mediocre" to "okay" (in contrast, he looked like a monster before Calzaghe, enough so that some of us felt very comfortable favoring him 60-40).

He's clearly lost some of the quickness, the timing, the surety of foot and fist placement that made him appear so much more technically sound in the middle of the 00's than at the tail end of the decade. Whether that loss is a temporary and reversible one remains to be seen...I'm not holding my breath. People age, and their physical abilities diminish. What's encouraging is that he has a fresh face (and voice) working the corner, someone who will be comfortable experimenting with different stylistic tweaks, with bringing a plan B, C, and D. No disrespect to Olsen, but that relationship had gone as far as it could go.

If your first exposure to Mikkel was in the loss to Calzaghe, and you've only watched his work since then, I can certainly understand the bafflement of doubters who aren't sure what fans see in him, and why he is "rated so highly off a loss". His career didn't begin with a loss to Calzaghe, though. That was the swansong, the last performance to date of the very sharp, accurate (and IMO, prime) Kessler.

Now that those attributes are faded, and at least for the time being he's got his plate full with top-level competition in front of him as far as the eye can see (assuming he KO's Green and makes the semifinals), he's got to make do with what he has in order to stand a chance. Phoning in performances like Perdomo won't cut it. Even this gutsy but sloppy effort against Froch - maintaining that level of performance simply isn't good enough going forward as the tournament heats up (or if he wants to remain a world champion in the longer term). He needs to look at what attributes he does still have available to him and improve upon them. That includes an iron will, near-iron chin, a still decent offensive arsenal (more varied than pre-Calzaghe, but at the expense of accuracy and fluidity...and his bread and butter 1-2 lacks the same snap that it had), a new trainer with new ideas, and a newfound go-for-broke slugger's mentality fueled by a burning desire to win. He can't outbox the true elite boxers at this point with his once-effective mastery of the stand-up European style (if he ever could have), so he has to be the aggressor...whether it looks pretty or not. He doesn't have the legs to utilize his old defensive evasiveness, nor are his reflexes sharp enough to pick off shots with his gloves...so Montoya is trying to drill home the concepts of head movement and being first (and last) to get off. His right hand the way he throws it now isn't going to be spoiling anybody's dreams anymore (except maybe tofu-chinned Allan Green's), so he's got to fine-tune his underrated hook and uppercut to the body and make sure he's putting the time in during camp to make sure he can maintain a very high punch output and bank on outworking and hopefully outlanding his opponents, maybe stopping them by attrition but at the very least racking up points.

Whether a fan or not, you have to concede that it'll be interesting to see how he continues to fare with replacing his older, prettier, more careful and economical, and simpler style and skillset with the newer, uglier, riskier, busier and less familiar.

Is your skepticism (and that of many, many others) of Kessler's current and recent ability at the world level justified and fair? Yes.

Is yours - or anybody's - dismissal of him as ever having been a quality operator in the sport of boxing, and of his fans as fitting categorically into either the nationalist slot or the JC-fans-with-ulterior-motive slot - justified and fair? Not at all.
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excelent post. an that comes from an natioalistic, racist, Kessler fanatic,:nut

san rafael · Apr 30, 2010

IntentionalButt said: ↑

san raf, you and I seem to have a healthy mutual respect. I never realized you were in the "all Kessler fans are either Danish nationalists or closet Calzaghe fans with an agenda" camp.

Would you go as far as casting that aspersion on me?

Some of us who became fans of Kessler did so during his prime. Was he more than a very good, technically sound 1-2 fighter in his prime? No. It was, however a style and skillset that was effective enough against decent European (and world) level opposition, and it was pleasing to the eye. Against solid (not Ring top ten p4p, but solid) competition in Mundine, Beyer, Andrade - he looked very good, and in addition to just being a likable guy, that won him supporters.

I am not a fan of Calzaghe or his slapping style (though one must at least consider that with fragile mitts, it is impressive that someone could eschew true power punching and still manage to win and win and win). He has earned my begrudging respect (particularly with the dynamic win over Kessler, where he was forced to do some very surprising things he hadn't had to do in years) but at the time they met, I was passionately rooting against him. Kessler disappointed against Calzaghe - not in terms of his will or heart, but in dimensionality. In ability to adapt and adjust. One man was able to, and the other just wasn't - it wasn't a part of his identity as a fighter. This was shown again when he ran into similar problems with another very good (potentially great) and multi-dimensional boxing-spoiler in Ward...the difference being, between the two losses his build-back performances ranged from "mediocre" to "okay" (in contrast, he looked like a monster before Calzaghe, enough so that some of us felt very comfortable favoring him 60-40).

He's clearly lost some of the quickness, the timing, the surety of foot and fist placement that made him appear so much more technically sound in the middle of the 00's than at the tail end of the decade. Whether that loss is a temporary and reversible one remains to be seen...I'm not holding my breath. People age, and their physical abilities diminish. What's encouraging is that he has a fresh face (and voice) working the corner, someone who will be comfortable experimenting with different stylistic tweaks, with bringing a plan B, C, and D. No disrespect to Olsen, but that relationship had gone as far as it could go.

If your first exposure to Mikkel was in the loss to Calzaghe, and you've only watched his work since then, I can certainly understand the bafflement of doubters who aren't sure what fans see in him, and why he is "rated so highly off a loss". His career didn't begin with a loss to Calzaghe, though. That was the swansong, the last performance to date of the very sharp, accurate (and IMO, prime) Kessler.

Now that those attributes are faded, and at least for the time being he's got his plate full with top-level competition in front of him as far as the eye can see (assuming he KO's Green and makes the semifinals), he's got to make do with what he has in order to stand a chance. Phoning in performances like Perdomo won't cut it. Even this gutsy but sloppy effort against Froch - maintaining that level of performance simply isn't good enough going forward as the tournament heats up (or if he wants to remain a world champion in the longer term). He needs to look at what attributes he does still have available to him and improve upon them. That includes an iron will, near-iron chin, a still decent offensive arsenal (more varied than pre-Calzaghe, but at the expense of accuracy and fluidity...and his bread and butter 1-2 lacks the same snap that it had), a new trainer with new ideas, and a newfound go-for-broke slugger's mentality fueled by a burning desire to win. He can't outbox the true elite boxers at this point with his once-effective mastery of the stand-up European style (if he ever could have), so he has to be the aggressor...whether it looks pretty or not. He doesn't have the legs to utilize his old defensive evasiveness, nor are his reflexes sharp enough to pick off shots with his gloves...so Montoya is trying to drill home the concepts of head movement and being first (and last) to get off. His right hand the way he throws it now isn't going to be spoiling anybody's dreams anymore (except maybe tofu-chinned Allan Green's), so he's got to fine-tune his underrated hook and uppercut to the body and make sure he's putting the time in during camp to make sure he can maintain a very high punch output and bank on outworking and hopefully outlanding his opponents, maybe stopping them by attrition but at the very least racking up points.

Whether a fan or not, you have to concede that it'll be interesting to see how he continues to fare with replacing his older, prettier, more careful and economical, and simpler style and skillset with the newer, uglier, riskier, busier and less familiar.

Is your skepticism (and that of many, many others) of Kessler's current and recent ability at the world level justified and fair? Yes.

Is yours - or anybody's - dismissal of him as ever having been a quality operator in the sport of boxing, and of his fans as fitting categorically into either the nationalist slot or the JC-fans-with-ulterior-motive slot - justified and fair? Not at all.
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Thoughtful post, IB. Out of respect for you I read most of "War And Peace" here. You're using alot of style in your writing as usual, but we're just a bit off here in terms of honest truth. Kess had a miserable time trying to land on Mundine, showed the same wildness and lack of imagination in his prime that he does today... Had softer targets... No need for revisionism. Anyway, I was having a playful exchange (aspersioning) with two of our friends here and made certain references - to them. The spades were spades to begin with. What I called them. That's the biggest problem with your fundamental assertion. You've picked the wrong "all Kessler fans are either Danish nationalists or closet Calzaghe fans with an agenda" camper. Happy hunting though. Maybe your Kessler hater will have read this.

IntentionalButt · Apr 30, 2010

Kessler has never been terribly imaginative (though I deluded myself into thinking he might be when the uppercut came out of nowhere against Calzaghe). That's always been frustrating. When he was a technician, he was a predictable technician. Now that he's a free-swinging brawler - well, that makes him slightly more unpredictable by nature but you can still see the hampster spinning at the same idiosyncratic speed on its wheel in his head.

That's why Montoya has a job.

Anyway, it's cool that you don't actually have that particular irksome black and white view about his fans being one or the other (there are, unfortunately, many that do seriously claim to). I know I'm one to talk, but your playful exchanges can be pretty convincingly dry. And as I'm sure you put together, and you even alluded to it, War & Peace there was more to get that off my chest and on the record for the benefit of the actual Kessler haters. And they are legion around here. :-(

HolgerD · Apr 30, 2010

IntentionalButt said: ↑

OK, maybe I missed the sequence with the head clash that opened it up.

I was just going by what Kessler said...he thought it was a punch.
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I assume Froch hit some of Kessler's scar tissue. The tissue Kessler was left with after the Ward fight. (If scar tissue areas indeed opens up easier Ward really did a great job creating problems for Kessler down the road. )

Claus Holmen · Apr 30, 2010

Kessler has´nt really changed much. He has´nt faded. But as a Super Sixer he is competing against better quality than before.
And Kessler - technically schooled - will always look great outboxing and outpunching a lesser talented boxer.
Andrade and Mundine were acceptable contenders. But I believe that even Sartison - Kessler underrated comebackopponent after Calz - could´ve beaten those two guys.
Against Sartison, Froch, Calzaghe and Ward, Kessler met equally talented boxers - and has been forced to dig deep, to change his butyful boxfighting style - on the other man terretory he just could´nt patiently wait for Calzaghe or Ward to make fatal mistakes. On homeground the homeboy always gets creditted for every punch. Renember statistics showed Kessler hitting Calzaghe with more punches than visa versa.
With a new corner Kesslers tactic worked perfectly against Froch: He had the advantage of homeground and knew that the amount of punches rather than the force of every single punch would be the deciding factor at the end of 12 rounds.
So Kessler fought in a very high gear - the 12th being the ugliest version of Kessler I´ve ever seen ! But he won - even getting a lot of praise from boxing-writers for his gutsy performance.
He won - and he´s not fading. He´s changed into something less prettier.

footballplayer3 · Apr 30, 2010

Kessler looked really bad, the same as he did against Ward... and Froch just get exposed again showing no skill at all. his biggest quality is his heart

san rafael · Apr 30, 2010

IntentionalButt said: ↑

Kessler has never been terribly imaginative (though I deluded myself into thinking he might be when the uppercut came out of nowhere against Calzaghe). That's always been frustrating. When he was a technician, he was a predictable technician. Now that he's a free-swinging brawler - well, that makes him slightly more unpredictable by nature but you can still see the hampster spinning at the same idiosyncratic speed on its wheel in his head.

That's why Montoya has a job.

Anyway, it's cool that you don't actually have that particular irksome black and white view about his fans being one or the other (there are, unfortunately, many that do seriously claim to). I know I'm one to talk, but your playful exchanges can be pretty convincingly dry. And as I'm sure you put together, and you even alluded to it, War & Peace there was more to get that off my chest and on the record for the benefit of the actual Kessler haters. And they are legion around here. :-(
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Good stuff, IB. :thumbsup

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